Keto challah???? | Imamother

amother

Thu, Nov 11 2021, 5:58 am

andrea levy wrote:

I just want to say that what you are talking about is NOT what he means by keeping your body guessing.

First, he has no idea of eating disorder or compulsive eating. We had that discussion PERSONALLY because he is my doctor in real life. He wanted me to do regular 36 hour fasts. I’ve tried them. They destabilize me. I understand why and I explained to him. Only you can really decide what works or doesn’t for you.

What HE means is this:

When a person goes low calorie, the body will adapt over time ( you’ve heard me refer to these as the adaptations of weightloss.

They include your metabolism slowing and ironica Your body becoming more efficient and this using fewer calories to accomplish them. Two sides of the same coin.

What he suggests is NOT that you treat yourself once a week and trust gd. I mean, hashem made our bodies and hashem made us subject to the effects of poor nutrition. If you’re really faithful then you know that gd created the insulin response to carby and processed foods and also that because of homeostasis this response gets worse the more you do it.

Jason Fung is definitely advocating for keeping your body guessing but what that means is changing things up according to caloric intake and food Timing daily. He’s dating dont just eat x amount a day. You have lighter and heavier calorie days. You fast and you FEAST. You have days with three meals and days with two or one or none. But when you eat, you EAT.

Also, he is a STRONG advocate of eating real and nutrition dense food. But he’s a nephrologist not an eating disorder specialist. You have to sort your eating out yourself.

Don’t kid yourself. The thousands of people who’ve healed themselves through his care are not pretending that a little bit won’t hurt them at least once a week and then going off into the wide blue yonder. Something tells me if you got this far in IF,, your problem wasn’t a simple one.

People who follow him and succeed do what I do.

Eat real food
Eat nutrition dense food
Change up eating patterns
And if you really can’t handle eating something, then don’t eat it.

It has nothing to do with a lack of faith by you. It has to do with how gd made the human body. Gd also gave us the answer tho do use it!

Jason Fung is your actual doctor in real life? Wow! What is he like?

When I first read about fasting or sounded really wacko to me. But you keep reading and reading and it starts to seem normal. What was "destabilizing" about the 36 fasts? The longest I've fasted is about 27 hours, from 2pm one day until 5pm the next day. I don't know how people manage to do this twice a week. I'm really hoping that keto + 16:8 or 18:6 (minus a few extra carbs on Shabbas, fit the mitzvah, but also because it helps me not cheat at all throughout the week) will be enough to get where I need to go (reverse Insulin Resistance, lose weight).

Chana Miriam S

Tue, Nov 23 2021, 11:31 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

@andrealevy you said that Jason Fung is your actual IRL doctor. Is he as successful as it appears on the internet? The extended fasts that he suggests seem kinda crazy to me, especially the way he says you have to do them week after week. Are his methods legitimate or a bit over the top?

Jason Fung is a legitimate doctor. You have to understand that his process came out of dealing with really SICK people with kidney damage. He is a nephrologist, not just stam a doctor. He is literally out to put himself out of business. He came upon fasting as a way to control blood sugar and insulin resistance because it was easy to understand and free, so every patient could do it.

In my experience, he listens to the patient. I know others for whom he is their physician also. For example, he did suggest to me that I do 36 hour fasts if I wanted to speed up weight loss. I know a lot of people who do it successfully. I find it difficult and triggering, probably because of my years of disordered eating.

His response to me was “ I know about diabetes and kidneys. Not about eating disorders.” He encouraged me to do what feels right for me. He is pleased with my progress and my most recent appointment, he asked me if I wanted to keep seeing him since I’m doing so well. Especially because I have regular contact with the Toronto Metabolic Ckinic which he is also connected to.

I do have a kidney issue which is nothing until it’s something, and I requested that he keep me in his practice because of that. So unless for some reason I destabilize, I’m in his practice but not needing constant care.

He is realistic about the human body and recognizes that people are all different. Everyone responds differently to various treatments and each persons progress needs to be based on their own metrics.

Here’s what I would say are his most important messages:

Be consistent while keeping your body guessing. This can be done with amount of food, type of food or length of fast. Some people like long fasts. He does t suggest them without medical supervision. I can’t remember at what point he suggests supervising but maybe 7 days?

Eat real food. Processed food is garbage.

Get your insulin down either via low carb, or fasting or both.

Most importantly, if your A1c is 7 and you’re on drugs, that’s uncontrolled diabetes. If your a1c is 7 unmediated there’s room for improvement but it’s waay better than on drugs.

Also that drugs to control blood sugar don’t prevent damage. You have to fix metabolic problems with food.

He is not crazy. He is not extreme and he is VERY successful, having solved many cases of type 2 diabetes, mitigated damage in type 1 diabetics and then and in his business IDM ( intensive dietary management) with weightloss.

He’s a serious scientist who can back up his theory with evidence and does So in his writing. He’s also GREAT at explaining and writes in a way that is easy to understand but serious.

He is NOT suggesting you fast and then Binge on cake. It’s not about diet culture. You don’t get to go to him unless there’s a reason. Mine was that I had eye damage at a prediabetic level, making me more likely to have kidney damage in the long run.

amother

Cappuccino

Tue, Nov 23 2021, 11:35 pm

amother [ Rose ] wrote:

If it’s for health reasons then I would ask a Rav that is expert in metabolic disorders to give you a heter. These things can go South pretty quickly if you don’t take care of your health.
I know ppl that have a heter.
They wash with no bracha, and they say bircat Hamazon WITHOUT saying Hashem’s name.
I myself do not wash or say bircat hamazon but I say amen to DHs berachot bircat hamazon

BTW- If you are only doing it for weight loss understand that you have insulin resistance and can turn into a diabetic very quickly. The weight is only a symptom to bigger things going on in your body.

I also asked my Rov, doing keto and get terrible cravings every Shabbos from any challah carbs, and he said to have spelt. He wouldn’t allow me to not wash and make hamotzi l

Chana Miriam S

Tue, Nov 23 2021, 11:38 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Destabilizing because after I finish I want to eat much more than I need to. I feel fine after a 24. I feel destabilized after 36. I’ve done 52 a few times and while I saw benefits I had to fight to stay disciplined after.

In real life he’s a doctor. He acts like a doctor. He’s a doctor in a geeky scientist kind of way. He’s very calm and in my case, he knows I’m serious and consistent and he respects what I say about my experiences. I also listen to what he says carefully.

Be consistent. Work out what works for you. Don’t give up. You WILL get there!

Chana Miriam S

Tue, Nov 23 2021, 11:41 pm

amother [ Cappuccino ] wrote:

I also asked my Rov, doing keto and get terrible cravings every Shabbos from any challah carbs, and he said to have spelt. He wouldn’t allow me to not wash and make hamotzi l

I’m sorry that your rav wasn’t more receptive. I did research and spoke with rabbis who were not mine to understand what the problem was and thankfully since my issues were linked to my eyes and halachically, eyes are connected to the heart, I got my heter,

Here’s the thing though. You CAN get through it. Eat the minimum you have to and make sure that after you eat it you are conscious of what will happen. Have a good plan for Shabbat and stick to it so that the cravings don’t get the better if you! If you know what you’re fighting it’s easier to fight it!

Chana Miriam S

Tue, Nov 23 2021, 11:47 pm

amother [ Cappuccino ] wrote:

Being in ketosis was the only thing I found to help me stay on any diet and be able to lose the weight I needed to lose because only ketosis made me lose the cravings and constant hunger.

If you are eating very low carb most of the time, you are in ketosis. I don’t recall if you said how you were checking but just so you know, pee sticks are very inaccurate after you become fat adapted because you use the ketones. I never test positive with pee tests and blood tests are too expensive to bother with. Are you basing this idea that you aren’t in ketosis on pee sticks?

Did you know that once you are fat adapted even some carbs occasionally might not knock you out of ketosis? But if you’re having cravings, that can still happen in ketosis if your blood sugar isn’t stable.

I dont know about you but sometimes too much information is a bad thing for me. For example, I have to be careful not to put too much stock in my scale weight. A good number can make me want to eat more as can a bad number. Interestingly when I do t weigh, I tend to be just as successful as when I don’t.

amother

Ebony

Wed, Nov 24 2021, 8:33 am

andrea levy wrote:

is your way of eating only for diabetic people?
I understand you are on a low carb diet. does that mean eating little carbs or foods that are lower in carbs than other carb foods?

which low carbs do you eat?

tks

amother

Rose

Wed, Nov 24 2021, 9:42 am

amother [ Cappuccino ] wrote:

I also asked my Rov, doing keto and get terrible cravings every Shabbos from any challah carbs, and he said to have spelt. He wouldn’t allow me to not wash and make hamotzi l

Is he a Rav that understands metabolic disorders
My Rav told me the same
Then we spent a Shabbat with a GADOL (that we trust)
He stayed at my home.
He actually saw how I transformed from a healthy person to a cripple over the Friday night meal of just having challah.
He called my husband over and asked what is happening
He said stop making your wife suffer
ALL high carb foods give me intense joint pain and stiffness.

Please find a Rav that understands metabolic disorders

Chana Miriam S

Wed, Nov 24 2021, 10:52 am

amother [ Rose ] wrote:

I agree. It has to be someone who understands the nature of the crisis, not just any rabbi.