Chizuk needed: Pls. remind me why we have kids

amother

Wed, Dec 01 2021, 1:44 am

amother [ NeonPink ] wrote:

I’m not the one to comment bc everywhere. Got married late and my dream was to have many in a row, alas I felt like you describe, probably a mix of sheer exhaustion and pp hormones and needed to take a break.

My Rav said something I thought was really interesting since he’s really not the type- sometimes he’s happy ppl ask if they can be because they ‘ must ‘ be on bc. It’s a chiyuv and something needs to change before going off…

As an aside and with as little details as possible- I’m close with someone who is the sweetest woman, she’s expecting #5 in around that many years and she was recently hospitalized- she snapped and got aggressive with her husband. I hope her marriage and she herself, her attachment with her kids can all recover.

Many many ppl can handle kids close close together all the time - we all have kids with different temperaments, we handle hormones differently etc.(remember you can have 3 then have a break than Iyh have many more, I’m not advocating for stopping or like one in 5 years)

That's me, too!

So you can probably relate to the extra layer of guilt- "you were davening for this exact circumstance for years! How can you kvetch?!"

Interesting point about rav, because mine said almost same thing: "It's not only mutar [for you]; it's a mitzva!"

Re the poor woman who snapped: I'm always hesitant to attribute having lots of children to that kind of extreme reaction. Who knows if she didn't have let's say severe PPD that went undiagnosed and untreated? or weak mental health to begin with? But my heart goes out to her and her family and I wish her a refuah shelaima.
(It reminds me of the Mishpacha serial "Light Years Away". You following it?)

amother

Wed, Dec 01 2021, 1:50 am

amother [ NeonPink ] wrote:

Just to add practical advice- what helps me in the moment is music and asking hashem to get through the moment. I’ll try and sit and play even if there’s other things going on. I barely cook and only clean at night for a bit.

Also never let myself think about the future ( I can’t have more etc) in the moment cuz then I spiral

This!! But when I'm really not managing, I cry and scream to Him, "Where are You?! These are Your kids too, and You must help out!" I don't always see the response right away, though. Sad

Good idea to just stay in the moment. I panic about dealing with these ages for the next 15-20 years iyH, and how on earth will I survive with my sanity intact and with kids turning out normal?!

Could we start a support group? BH millions of times that these are my blessed, healthy challenges! BUT I see how much I am appreciating all these responses (and it seems that others on this thread are gaining so much too). Do any of you know if there is such a group here already?

amother

Wed, Dec 01 2021, 1:52 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

OP, you are not a bad mother. A bad mother will not want to change and do better. You're just overwhelmed, exhausted, and possibly PPD.

What you need, are coping mechanisms to help you get through the hard times. Your kids need you to stay calm and be their rock, when they are having an emotional storm. When you get reactive, it just creates a feedback loop that keeps going.

What I found the most helpful, is empathy. Imagine that you are a 3yo, and that you want something very badly. You have limited power, limited resources, and the person you need to talk to is paying attention to someone or something else. It's so frustrating! The child gets flooded with emotions, and they don't have the maturity to regulate themselves. Being out of control is scary for them.

When faced with a tantrum, I think "Wow, it must be really hard to be you right now. Poor thing!" I validate the want, validate the emotions, and stay calm. When the tantrum passes, I work with the child on problem solving. (Keep doing this until they are married and out of the house!)

Each stage will come with it's own challenges, but the technique is always the same. Put yourself in your child's shoes, and feel with them. It will reframe your attitude so much.

Hatzlocha! Hug

Thanks, FF! I appreciate your response and ideas!
The empathy piece is great. It will take some practice, because it's always hard in the moment, but I will try to keep it in mind.

amother

Wed, Dec 01 2021, 1:54 am

spikta wrote:

Here to join the chizuk chorus. Tantruming todlers can be sooooo draining. I think I'm a pretty good parent, but there's only so much screaming I can hear before it starts affecting me. We can't not be affected by our children kvetching, we're hardwired to be distraught by it and want to do something about it.
After hours with my toddler screaming 50-60% of the time I too get exhausted, frazzled and frustrated. That's just the developmental phase he's in right now, I know how to manage it, but I'm allowed not to enjoy it. Nothing wrong with disliking endless tantrums.

BH my older children are lovely, each in their own way. It's not an "oh you're a cute baby" love, but a "wow, look at this amazing complex and interesting person you're growing into" love, and I'm awed by the precious gifts hashem has given me. I think because your eldest is 3 you're in the trenches and you can't see beyond, but it really will get better. Do what you can to take care of yourself so that you can deal with the burnout of parenting small children, and don't feel guilty about the frustration and exasperation you feel, because it's totally understandable and natural. You don't need to add guilt into the pile of other unpleasant feelings you already have. Just keep on doing what you can, and know that soon, even in a few weeks or months, your girl will mature a bit and it will really get better.

So validating and helpful! Really good to know that it doesn't mean it will always be this hard. Thank you!

amother

Wed, Dec 01 2021, 1:56 am

amother [ Moonstone ] wrote:

Did you ever take a parenting class? I know your kids are little, but a 3 year old can use some limits and rules for you both to feel secure. I remember the first time feeling the need to potch my toddler. He must have done something very destructive and just pushed my buttons. Once I took a parenting class, and understood the psychology behind mine and my children's actions-I was much more in control and rarely get upset with them. My oldest few are teens already and my house still runs on those skills I learned when they were little. Its a great investment.

I signed up for one but didn't start yet. What you're saying makes a lot of sense and gives me hope!

amother

Wed, Dec 01 2021, 2:02 am

zaq wrote:

One word: grandchildren.

Certainly something to look forward to, but it can't be the only reason. What about if one's child doesn't have children of their own, or the parent dies before they have grandchildren, or if the child doesn't follow the parent's path and has children who bring more pain than joy to parent, etc etc?
I recently read that we can't look at our children as nachas machines. They are their own people, and that may not be realized. So there has to be more to this.
I mean this very sincerely, as I wrote way upthread. Please provide more food for thought!

amother

Wed, Dec 01 2021, 2:04 am

imasinger wrote:

There's some helpful chizuk on this thread. And there's another recent thread about good mom bad mom that might be worth thinking about.

I'll put in another vote for therapy, parenting class, or both at some point. Therapy can help you understand why certain things that your DD does feel triggering, and how to keep it from bothering you as much. (It's totally normal to be a wonderfully calm aunt, and still find life as a mother very different.). You can also learn more about the guilt feelings that come after a less than ideal mom moment, and how to cope with them. Parenting class will give you specific tips, plus a chance to realize you're not alone. And both will offer some time for yourself, as a bonus.

In the meantime, feel free to post here about specific moments with your DD3. There's a lot of great experience and perspective on this board.

Thank you for your perspective! And I am so grateful to everyone else, too, who shared experience and perspective. It's like talking to a wiser older sister and a chiding grandmother/shvigger at once! Wink

amother

Wed, Dec 01 2021, 2:07 am

amother [ NeonPink ] wrote:

From one pink amother to another. Tell me how to get rest (the biggest factor for me) or normal food and calm outings when my kids go from one virus to the next taking turns… ear infection… literally lucky if I get two or three nights of sleep a week.

Can you get a babysitter/mothers helper during the day for a couple of hours? Or as someone esle suggested, take turns with DH for nighttime sleep or daytime nap? I believe that sleep deprivation is a certain form of torture, and just makes everything else infinitely harder.

amother

Wed, Dec 01 2021, 2:08 am

amother [ RosePink ] wrote:

F
I'm in the same stage as you, my oldest is 3, youngest is 6 months and they aren't the only ones Smile

. It's really really really hard some days but when I notice that it's hard for a long time, I know I'm letting my own needs slide.

Let's be friends!! It's so good to have all these amothers who can relate and just nod along!

amother

Wed, Dec 01 2021, 2:12 am

amother [ Moccasin ] wrote:

Also, it sounds like you may benefit from either more realistic expectations from your children or more discipline. And of course, if you grew up without love it is really hard to feel love to yourself and to your children, so try to heal that if you can.

I think you're right about expectations. But because she is the oldest, I don't really know what is reasonable from a 3 yo.

BH I grew up with plenty of love, but also lots of short fuses. I think I am starting to parent the same way, and I don't like it. Hopefully, the parenting class I signed up for will be helpful. And I am considering therapy.

amother

Wed, Dec 01 2021, 2:16 am

amother [ Oatmeal ] wrote:

I try and give myself time-out when I feel I'm at the point of can't take it. I take long toilet breaks as that's the only place I get some privacy. I also resort to things like short screen time as needed. I try avoid doing that but sometimes it is totally for my sanity.

LOL yes!! But that is sometimes a luxury, if you are home yourself and can't really trust everyone to stay safe. (Someone here once mentioned that she doesn't leave kids under 3 unsupervised, even while she goes to the bathroom, so she takes the kid along. I was just picturing that happening here..."OK, all! We're going on a family trip!" LOL

)

amother

Wed, Dec 01 2021, 2:18 am

PSmommy wrote:

I feel that!!! I used to be a fun, easy going, always positive person. Now I have a toddler and baby (and a husband with mental issues) and I always find myself stressed, annoyed and angry. I hate that I became like this.

That must be super hard!! There are some good suggestions in this thread. I hope you gain from it as much as I have!

amother

Wed, Dec 01 2021, 2:20 am

amother [ Grape ] wrote:

From a few of the things you wrote, this could be me posting, OP. Sometimes it helps me to think of the concept called the Good Enough Parent. Basically, if your children are fed, bathed, clothed, and loved, and more than half of your interactions with them are positive, they will turn out okay. That means even if you snap at them a few times a day, but they go to bed with a song and a kiss, or they had their favorite supper, or you made them laugh, or you took them off the bus with a smile, etc, these are all positive interactions and they feel your love. I think of it as a bank account. Every time we share a neutral or positive interaction, money goes into the bank account, and when there's a negative interaction, money comes out. The goal is to make sure there is enough money in the account to withdraw.

I just hope they'll be ok! Overall, the bigger message is that they are loved and cherished and I hope that's what will stick. But I hope they're not also absorbing that they are annoying, messy, difficult sometimes...

amother

Wed, Dec 01 2021, 2:23 am

elaela wrote:

lack of sleep
lack of appreciation
lack of time
HUGE responsibililty
BAD CONCIOUS

OF COURSE ITS TOO MUCH

any woman/man would feel exhausted/tired/resentful.

its like telling a CEO of a big company to work 3 jobs 24/7 without a secretary and when a worker must leave he has to jump in and fill that gap too.

mothers have to function around the clock (when the shefalachs are still dependant) and if one is sick or teething, you suck it up and still play/craft/read stories to the older ones, besides cooking, shopping, running errands, doc appointments household etc...

so yeah what you feel is TOTALLY normal.

my only advice:
get babyistters, give formula so dh can feed baby during nighthours, get cleaning help, outsource what u can and keep your standards LOW. make sure to spoil yourself (massage/movienight whatever on regular basis to fill up your empty), download some great chinuchshiurim and fake it till u make it: SMILE AND APPRECIATE YOUR QUALITY TIME and dont focus on the bad.

hazlacha you are fantastic, literaaly superwoman!!!!

Thanks for the vote of confidence! It means a lot. I think that since it's so normal around here to live such a lifestyle, nobody really gives you too much credit for it-it's just taken for granted. And then I think something must be wrong if I don't always keep it together.

amother

Jasmine

Wed, Dec 01 2021, 2:40 am

I think finding your real answer to this question will get you through and give you more clarity on how to proceed.
For example, I personally felt that I had a desire to love and nurture another human. I wanted to experience being a mother and help a neshama grow into a full fleged independent functioning adult. I also wanted that human to grow up with a sibling and I felt I had enough in my heart to do it again.
Right now I no longer feel that way, so I don't have any more.
(Obviously I over simplifying the thought process, but you get the idea)

amother

Burgundy

Wed, Dec 01 2021, 8:18 am

Don't know if anyone wrote this (I didn't read through the 5 pages of posts)
On a humorous note, I wanted to tell you the reason why we have kids:
So we have whom to blame when things don't get done because you have no patience!! I'm serious! No one can tell you it's not true! We do it all the time!

OP: these hard times too will pass and you will yet enjoy your children so much and their witty comments and their funny stories and their adorable personalities!

amother

Iris

Wed, Dec 01 2021, 8:31 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So I finally got a chance to check back. Thanks tons to everyone for your chizuk and good advice!
I was in a much better frame of mind today (not even sure why, exactly. Maybe hormones are at play), so everything was automatically much easier and kids were so much cuter! Wink

Just BTW, DH helps a lot, I have some (enough for me) cleaning help, and I do end up with me-time every day. So that also makes me wonder why I feel so overwhelmed sometimes- I am already doing the typical suggestions.
Also, it's entirely normal for many in our community to have kids very close in age, and to not even slow down like, ever. Not to say that I can do that, and we are in touch with rav about BC and doing it as per our hashkafa etc, but just wondering how those couples do it? I know there is no such thing as superwoman and they are all normal people. Do they have more physical stamina? better emotional health? Or are they all wrung-out shmattes? (I know some such women personally, and the last option is almost never true.)
If you're in a similar boat please let me in on your secrets!
(And if your community looks at this as completely irresponsible etc, please don't use this thread to share your views...)

Even in communities where people have children close together they hope to nurse clean for a while. It’s normal to have breaks, even if you want a large family.

amother

Lemonchiffon

Wed, Dec 01 2021, 11:57 am

Hi OP thank you so much for posting this, I literally thought I wrote it. I am the funnest aunt yet I feel so overwhelmed within my own house. I am so busy and overwhelmed that I sometimes dont feel bad for my coworker who is married 3yrs w/o children. (Please Hashem forgive me!!!) I just wonder where mothers get their inner strength from??? Where do they pull up these magical ways to raise beautiful families. what are their secrets. I thought I'd b the most amazing mommy till I was one.