Ungrateful | Imamother

behappy2

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 3:58 pm

Lizzie4 wrote:

This. Once you develop your own sense of self value and worth you don't need your child to thank you or stroke your ego by complimenting you. It's just unnecessary.

They are wonderful just by being them and it should give you pleasure to be with them regardless of what you do or don't give them.

I actually think it's natural that we do get hurt and that it was intentional that way, that we teach our children not to hurt others. If parents were angels I don't think kids would grow up healthy. In that case we could have robots raise our kids. Our kids need us to be very human. Although I do always take the biggest hit in the relationship I am careful not to take EVERY hit.

LovesHashem

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 4:13 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Entitled children/people are never happy.

Only people who appreciate what they have are happy. And this must be taught, role modeling etc.

This generation is the most unhappy. most anxiety/depression, highest suicide, drug abuse etc.

So I dont see howanyone can claim that modern parenting resulted in happier more mentally healthier children.

This generation is filled with screens and tiktok and Instagram and movies. This generation is growing up comparing themselves to perfect kids on the Instagram.

People are unhappy due to a lot of comparing, unhealthy addictive like social media and the internet, etc.

amother

Garnet

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 6:19 pm

I remember an incident that happened when my kids were little years ago, my kids probably ranged from ages 4-10, we took the kids to a nice park and at some point while we were there then a dog came close to us and my kids got scared and we quickly moved away. The rest of the time at the park was really nice. On the way home ALL my kids were doing was complaining about the dog. I could hardly believe my ears, they sounded so incredibly ungrateful and only focusing on the negative which was a tiny fraction of the positive. After that then I started a ritual where every night at supper time (or bedtime) each child would say one good thing about their day and one bad thing about their day. It really made a difference! I included a bad thing cuz I myself like venting and wanted to allow them the opportunity. After a while they had more than one good thing to share. I also did it as well which gave my kids a glimpse into my day. I highly recommend it.

amother

Ruby

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 8:43 pm

To address some if the points in this thread in no particular order:

Children are naturally self-centered, especially when very young. It's normal. If kids don't seem grateful, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are pathologically selfish. They are not trying to be hurtful.

It is the parents' responsibility to teach children how to behave socially and to nurture their ability to appreciate what others do for them.

Kids may not always understand what is part of the "package deal" of daily life and what is extra. For example, they get three meals a day and a bed to sleep in, and on holidays and birthdays, adults give them presents. If the gifts are a cultural expectation, children might not intuit that they should be more grateful for the gifts than for anything else parents give them. They need gentle guidance to understand this.

Good manners go a long way, and need to be taught. Children will not figure this out by themselves. I was taught to say "please" and "thank you" for everything, always. As a youngster, did I feel it in my heart while saying those words? Not always. But kids who are polite when asking for or receiving things are less likely to arouse the ire of adults around them, and well-mannered people are more pleasant to be around. They seem more grateful, and may learn, eventually, to really mean it.

Adults need to model desired behavior, acknowledge children's good behavior, and offer constructive guidance along the way. This applies not only to how we ask for things and how we accept gifts graciously ("please" and "thank you"), but also to how we talk about and reflect on things good and bad. The kids are complaining? Ok, they have frustrations in life. Help them learn to cope. They don't seem to notice anything positive? Many families share gratitude for simple things at the Shabbat table or at bedtime.

I'm in my fifties, and my siblings and I have adult children. Our parents modeled authoritative rather than authoritarian parenting, with a strong understanding of child development. They made a point of leaving "guilt-shame-and-punishment" parenting in the past. My generation has done the same. I'm glad to see that the next generation of parents seems to be continuing this trend. Modern parenting doesn't mean spoiling children or allowing them to run the family. It means understanding how they think.

DustyDiamonds

Wed, Dec 01 2021, 7:06 am

#BestBubby wrote:

Another way to teach gratitude is to read kids books about the olden days and kids who are poor.

I remember reading Little House and how thrilled Laura was to get a homemade cloth doll. It was the only toy she owned and she treasured it.

With all due respect, BestBubby,

And Laura’s parents were thrilled when they got their one glass window in their underground hovel - does your home resemble theirs?

When Moshe rabbeinu was transferring his leadership to Yehoshua, God commanded that new Chatzotzros (trumpets) to be made.

Why? Wouldn’t it have been so meaningful for Yehoshua’s generation to use the same silver trumpets that Moshe had used to gather the Jews together?

No. God was teaching us a lesson:

Each generation needs a different method of communication.

[Edited for grammar, but my grammar still needs help!]

Last edited by DustyDiamonds on Wed, Dec 01 2021, 7:21 am; edited 2 times in total

DustyDiamonds

Wed, Dec 01 2021, 7:14 am

BestBubby, here’s a thought from Rabbi Levi Yitzchak of Berdichov!

When the Gemara dies not have an answer, it states תיקו

"תשבי יתרץ קושיות ובעיות".

Translation: "Tishbi [Elijah]- will answer- questions- and inquiries "

Why do we want Eliyahu Hanavi to answer our questions; why not Moshe Rabbeinu who gave us the Torah and knew it all?

Because when Mashiach comes and we need someone to pasken our shaailos, we need a Gadol who understands the current facts on the ground.

Moshe Rabbeinu has been in Heaven for 3,000 years. Eliyahu comes to every Bris; he understands our generation!

And having a leader with a current understanding of the people is more important than having a leader who knows it all.

DustyDiamonds

Wed, Dec 01 2021, 7:19 am

Back to OP’s question:

Forcing kids to say thank you does nothing to teach gratitude. (Unless you want a puppet of a child who says thank you to her molester because she’s been trained that kids must always thank adults for everything they do for them, even things that feel bad.)

On the contrary, it develops shame.

Teaching kids to locate their feelings in their body will teach them gratitude! Dr. Becky explains how in this 42 second clip:

https://www.instagram.com/reel....._link

spikta

Wed, Dec 01 2021, 2:43 pm

I warmly recommend reading Stumbling on Happiness by Daniel Gilbert.
Executive summary: We're really bad at anticipating what will make us happy.

Are you bubbly and effusive for days after getting a new car? Did you not snap at your kids or get annoyed by traffic for a week following your lovely kitchen renovation? We tend to think that things will make us much happier, for much longer, than they actually do. The book unpacks a whole lot of fallacies we hold about happiness, and so many human behaviors started making more sense after I read it.

We'll all be happier if we have realistic expectations about how happy presents really make kids (and people in general). I know that a small present, like a light up dreidel, will capture my kids' attention for 5-10 minutes, and maybe for a few minutes here and there in the following days, and there's a 50% chance that such cheap toys will break while being played with, causing an equal amount, if not more, of crying. A larger gift will occupy them for half an hour, maybe an hour, and they'll play with it a few more times the following days.
I don't know that there's much I can give them that will fill them with gratitude for hours. Just like I don't expect an adult not get annoyed if they get stuck in traffic just because they got a new iphone that day. If later in the evening they burn their tongue on a latke or fight with their cousin, that's what they'll be aware of in the moment, and the present they got an hour ago won't do much to affect their mood.
Maybe some kids are more grateful, but I that's where *my* kids are at, and in fact, I chose to give them fewer, and less expensive gifts than what seems to be average. I do so without any guilt or hard feelings. I simply don't think that spending more money would actually make them any happier, it only makes *me* more frazzled and annoyed.

I teach my kids to say thank you, because it's an important social grace, and I also try to teach my kids to be in tune with their feelings. I try to catch them enjoying something and draw their attention to it, so they can be aware of their enjoyment and remember it fondly once it passes. I also call their attention to the feeling of connection around gift giving, which is, of course, the point of gift giving to begin with.

Basically OP, I'd recommend you have realistic expectations about your kids' gratitude levels, and if the gift giving is burning *you* out, you can totally tone it down.

amother

Ruby

Wed, Dec 01 2021, 5:32 pm

Forgot to include this in my previous post: giving kids too many gifts does them no favors. They will appreciate one new thing more than a houseful of new toys, and one small, special way to celebrate Chanukah each day rather than a big party every night. Again, adults should not take it personally when kids react as they are naturally inclined to do. Rather, adults should make an effort to engineer developmentally appropriate situations that will give children an opportunity to enjoy and *appreciate* the holiday with their families.

Zehava

Wed, Dec 01 2021, 6:01 pm

amother [ Ruby ] wrote:

I find it really depends on the type of gift. I give things that my kids have to use their brains for. Not shiny vapid toys. Lots of books, crafts, and building toys.