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My 5 year old never cleans up-update pg 6
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amother
Mayflower


 

Post Fri, Dec 03 2021, 1:42 pm
amother [ Jasmine ] wrote:
Exactly! I said that up thread. But to say that that it can’t be done it’s Ridiculous.

It's ridiculous to think it can be done 100% of the time automatically with no reminders because the parent cannot do it.
That is not okay parenting.
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amother
Jasmine


 

Post Fri, Dec 03 2021, 1:43 pm
amother [ Mayflower ] wrote:
It's ridiculous to think it can be done 100% of the time automatically with no reminders because the parent cannot do it.
That is not okay parenting.


I don’t think anyone is arguing what you are saying that they are, OP included
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amother
Purple


 

Post Fri, Dec 03 2021, 2:11 pm
Chayalle wrote:
They absolutely have unhealthy childhoods in many cases. And in some cases, yes, they are abused. (I've read some books about that too.)

None of us know what Almanzo Wilder did as a child. Laura did not write entirely factual books. She took plenty of literary license in her writing.

True plus I really don't think 19th century parenting is quite comparable to nowadays in any case.

Almanzo also played hooky from school pretty regularly with his parents' ok.

(As an adult he told his also adult daughter that his life had been "mostly full of disappointments.")

Laura in reality worked at a saloon as a maid when she was 12 years in order to help support her family. She was a live in and at one point the young adult son tried to rape her.

She felt huge pressure at the age of 15 to support her family doing a job she hated. In all likelihood that was probably why she was eager to get married.

Her own daughter was quite dysfunctional and blamed her problems on her parents. She claimed to have suffered from malnutrition as a child because they were so poor which caused her health problems later.

Lots more dysfunction to uncover, read the book Prairie Fires. It was quite a depressing book at the truth of the Little House books.
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amother
OP


 

Post Fri, Dec 03 2021, 2:35 pm
Thanks for all the help. I'm feeling way more confident. Will try to post some updates on successful implementation (this is to motivate me mostly)
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sneakermom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 03 2021, 2:37 pm
Op I want to send you my best wishes and blessings. It’s not easy facing a health challenge. It takes courage to face life and raise a family at the same time.

It’s also most common that when a family member has a health challenge the family revolves around that person. They become the center and everyone else’s needs take second fiddle. Sometimes this happens out of a physical necessity or emotional. Because the sick person is carrying a heavy burden.

It’s so hard to care for yourself. And also make space in the family for your child’s needs. Your child will definitely grow up a bit sidelined sometimes. The question is how to make it up to her and how to make space for her to just be a kid.

That’s not to say you can’t help her clean up some toys as routine. But just beware she shouldn’t be carrying the burden.
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amother
Powderblue


 

Post Fri, Dec 03 2021, 2:39 pm
OP -
I get it about the toys.
No way could I enforce only two toys at a time. So much creative play comes from mixing toys.
The clean up is a problem.
But limiting toys so strictly is not the right answer for me.

I think it’s fine to try to train her to clean up. But yes, it is training, and it’s not easy.

I haven’t gotten there yet. It’s a process.
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sneakermom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 03 2021, 2:41 pm
amother [ Powderblue ] wrote:
OP -
I get it about the toys.
No way could I enforce only two toys at a time. So much creative play comes from mixing toys.
The clean up is a problem.
But limiting toys so strictly is not the right answer for me.

I think it’s fine to try to train her to clean up. But yes, it is training, and it’s not easy.

I haven’t gotten there yet. It’s a process.


I never got there:)
Was never my goal due to my limitations and priorities. Life is not perfect. We each focus on what we can.
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amother
OP


 

Post Fri, Dec 03 2021, 2:46 pm
Sneakermom. I wish half of what you said would be true. Its quite invisible. I carry more than normal even for a healthy person in terms of taking care of the house and the family. Can't you tell by me trying to figure out how to get my 5 year old to clean up after herself?! Trying to slowly remedy some of that.
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notshanarishona




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 03 2021, 3:31 pm
It is completely age appropriate for a kid that age to resist or not want to clean up, especially if it hasn’t been in her routine until now. My 8 year old still tries to get out of cleaning up her messes.
The way I would do things is a slow and gradual shift.
Toys or crafts which always make a mess like painting can be temporarily put higher up or locked away unless your husband or someone who can can help clean up are home.
start with one toy at a time and she can’t take out a second until the first is cleaned up. Messes are a lot less overwhelming when in one place and simple to take care of. Second, I an assuming she is your youngest? If there is no babies around and house doesn’t need to be childproof think a little out of the box.
Lets say the issue you have is with bending. Consider getting a lego table for her dollhouse so it’s higher up and all in one place.
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amother
OP


 

Post Fri, Dec 03 2021, 3:43 pm
Thank you Notshanarishona. All great advice!
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sneakermom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 03 2021, 3:52 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Sneakermom. I wish half of what you said would be true. Its quite invisible. I carry more than normal even for a healthy person in terms of taking care of the house and the family. Can't you tell by me trying to figure out how to get my 5 year old to clean up after herself?! Trying to slowly remedy some of that.


That I understand. Trying to find balance. You’re daughter plays adorably. And that’s space that you’ve made for her creativity. So yeh. Much kudos.
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Dec 04 2021, 11:10 am
#BestBubby wrote:
It is a fact that almanzo wilder worked hard as a child.

I read lots of biographies and successful people were hardworking at young age.

Do you think 9 yo who train for olympics are abused?


Most of them are. Look into this. It's not a natural thing to push a small child to work so hard.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Dec 04 2021, 12:12 pm
I didn't want DD to grow up being spoiled and entitled. B'H she has a lot of relatives, which meant tons of toys.

When she was about 4 I had a talk with her about the "sad babies with no toys." These babies were sad because nobody ever gave them any toys. It's a mitzva to share with people who don't have things like we do. DD is an only child, so I didn't have to worry about saving toys for younger siblings.

When it was time to clean up, I'd tell her that she only had to clean up the things she wanted to keep, and then the rest would go to the sad babies. You'd be surprised, but she had stuffed animals and dolls that still had the tags on them, and she had no interest in them! She was more than happy to donate them to police and fire departments "toys for tots" programs.

From then on, all I had to say was "clean up whatever you want to keep." She understood that perfectly.

Another thing is to watch how you frame things. "Clean up this mess, there are Magnatiles everywhere!" is not good. Instead, try saying "I just need you to clean up the Magnatiles for now, OK? We can worry about the other stuff after dinner."

I also switched to melamine plates, so that she could help me wash and put away the dishes. I put all the good china away. It was worth it to me to have her stand on a chair next to me at the sink, and dry the dishes as I washed them. Sometimes she wanted to wash them by herself, so I let (and washed them again when she wasn't looking. Wink ) I stored the dishes on a lower cupboard, so she could help me put them away. She could also get a plate and a cup for herself when she needed one.

Keep small bags of carrots, apples, oranges, cheese sticks, or other snacks in the fridge, so that when she's feeling hungry it won't be hard for you to prepare something. Just present the choices, and you're done. Make up small bags of pretzels and other nosh, as well. Having the portions made up can make a big difference. (Individually packaged nosh bags are expensive, so get the family size bag and make up your own bags.)

~signed, a mother with depression, fibromyalgia, scoliosis, and chronic fatigue. It was extremely important to me that DD had as normal a childhood as possible.
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Heyaaa




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Dec 04 2021, 4:41 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Ok. So barely ever. She puts up a huge fuss. Its a combination of me not having had the energy to train her and her personality (doesn't feel the need to please me. Stubborn). *1

I don't have a lot of physical energy and its a two way sword. I can't clean up after her and have no energy to train her.

I don't want to do contests because then the expectation grows and grows. I just want to put it into the normal daily routine. *2

So far the one thing I have gotten her to do is to put her laundry in the hamper because we turned it into a basketball game (aim it and see if you can get it in the first try). *3

I need advice on ways to get her to clean up her toys, her school stuff, her meal. The toys right now is the biggie. She plays all over the house and insists she can't clean up because she's still in middle of playing.*4


*1) Sing her praises. "Pay" her with praise. If she isn't seeing that you are extremely pleased then why would she want to please you. She needs to see that you are thrilled.

*2) Do charts. Many charts for many things. The expectation will not grow. She will be happy and you will be happy. If you're worried that you can't afford the reward then don't make the reward be too much money. The reward can even be free (ie, no cleaning toys for one night, a trip to a far away park)

*3) It worked because it was fun. Use this to make the other chores fun. Charts make activities fun.

*4) One at a time. The goal is to make her responsible as she gets older, not to be your maid when she's a child. She'll get there before she becomes an adult if you follow the previous steps but please remember that she is only 5.
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Heyaaa




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Dec 04 2021, 4:49 pm
The best way to train kids (or adults) is with positive. We are trying to discourage messiness and reinforce personal responsibility. Charts are a great positive reinforcer.

Here is a great chart. My kids love it!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/prod.....psc=1

Here are extra chores for the same chart.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/prod.....psc=1
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Heyaaa




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Dec 04 2021, 4:53 pm
Also, you can have less stuff. Less stuff equals less mess. My kids know that if I have to clean up the toy myself then it will be the last time that I have to clean it up because I will donate it. They actually believe me because I have done it.

But the charts encourage them to clean up before I have to threaten to give them away. Earning something they want is much more motivating than trying to decide whether it's more worth it to clean up their toy than to have to say goodbye to it.
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Heyaaa




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Dec 04 2021, 4:57 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
OP wants 5 y.o. to clean up her toys.

That IS age appropriate.

ps ever read farmer boy by laura ingalls?

A 9 y.o. worked hard all day on farm during busy weeks.

And he felt very proud and good self esteem for being so capable.
And owned his own homestead at 19.


I'm laughing so hard. If you have to go back 150 years to prove your case then you know it's a bad argument.
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#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Dec 04 2021, 7:12 pm
Heyaaa wrote:
I'm laughing so hard. If you have to go back 150 years to prove your case then you know it's a bad argument.


I dont have to go back 150 years to prove that cleaning up toys is age appropriate for a five year old. There are hundreds of parenting books that say this.
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amother
Hyacinth


 

Post Sat, Dec 04 2021, 7:16 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Ok. So let's say week 1 we work on putting away a big toy after playing with it.

Week 2 we work on cleaning away crafts when done.

Week 3. We work on putting doll clothing away at night (cuz they are all over her floor)

Week 4 we work on putting plate away after dinner

This sounds feasible. Which part does she need help with? I assume big toys are overwhelming to put away but otherwise should she be able to do most herself with my supervision? She is almost 6.

Also I am working on getting cleaning help a few hours a week but there's too much she needs to do so having my daughter be able to take care of her things better would be a big help.


op, I read the whole thread and am wondering if this is your oldest child? Because your expectations seem rather high for a five year old.

Regarding the post quoted above: This is a good idea to work step by step — but instead of Week 1, Week 2, Week 3 and Week 4, make it Month 1, Month 2, Month 3, Month 4.
Also, I'd start with "putting plate away after dinner" for Week 1, as it's the easiest. (I'm assuming you mean "put plate in sink" — please don't expect her to wash it.)

As to which part she needs help with, the answer is: all of it. She needs your help and encouragement, repeatedly, with love and patience. Don't expect perfection and some of the time, don't expect anything.
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gonewiththewind1




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Dec 04 2021, 7:20 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
It is a fact that almanzo wilder worked hard as a child.

I read lots of biographies and successful people were hardworking at young age.

Do you think 9 yo who train for olympics are abused?


Yes they are usually abused. When they grow up they all say they had no childhood.
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