S/O Big Classes | Imamother

amother

Cantaloupe

Fri, Apr 08 2022, 1:11 pm

amother [ Firethorn ] wrote:

I don't think frum schools can really be compared to public schools. Yes, my very good, secular, public elementary school had 30ish students per class with no assistant, but we also either only had one teacher for the whole day or were separated by how well we were doing, depending on the age. My husband had a separate Hebrew teacher/kodesh teacher from 1st grade. So less time with ths teacher for them to build a relationship with the students. They also don't have as much material to cover, since they only teach English. My husband didn't have nearly as close of a relationship with his elementary school teachers as I did, because he was busier than I was in school. He was learning Hebrew and Tanach and about chagim. I was mostly doing family tree art projects or writing stories about ballet/baseball/my baby brother/etc. and other learning activities that give the teachers a clearer idea of who their students are

PS in NY start having more than one teacher in elementary, at least after 3rd grade. Typically they have ELA, separate social studies teacher, separate math and science teacher, plus dance/art teacher, and PE teacher.

amother

Coral

Fri, Apr 08 2022, 2:29 pm

I'm surprised that there aren't more teachers weighing in.

My first year teaching (high school English), I started with about 20 girls. There were two parallel classes taught by other first-year teachers. (Yeah, all of us started at once...teachers' shortage, anyone?) I started the year really enjoying myself. I was connecting with the girls; it really felt like I was teaching them and making a difference.

Within the first few months of the school year, it became obvious that one of the other teachers was in over her head. They passed a few of her students to me. I'm honestly not sure if it was because their parents pushed for them to change classes, or what. They were good kids. We welcomed them to our class.

Another month or so later, the other teacher started really struggling. They transferred a couple of her students to my class as well. None of these were problem students, but suddenly I had 25 girls in my class. It was HARD. I found myself struggling to keep everyone focused and learning, the grading was endless, and I couldn't give my students the individual attention I was used to giving them.

I remember being confused about the difference...Who cares about a measly five girls? Why should it make things so much harder for me? I spoke about it to another teacher, who said that it's a reality: A class of 25 is qualitatively different from a class of 20.

A week or two later, they told me they were transferring another student into my class. I told them that I was sorry, but I couldn't take another student right then. They understood and agreed to keep her in the other class.

I'm still not sure if I made the right decision. (I also left the teaching field after only two years of teaching, but that was mostly a financial decision.) But I can tell you, and I'm assuming other teachers will agree, that class size does make a difference.

amother

Amaryllis

Fri, Apr 08 2022, 2:36 pm

I had 36 girls in my class in high school. Bais Yaakov school. The other parallel class had 28 girls. The teachers used to tell us, "I don't understand why I'm always so behind in this class compared to the other class!" They always viewed us as having behavioral problems. Turns out that it's harder to cover ground in larger classes vs. smaller (not that 28 is small!)

As a teacher myself, I think that keeping class sizes small is critical for student success. It is impossible for a teacher to really have their finger on the pulse of all 30+ kids in a class. There are those who fall through the cracks. Additionally, students who have ADHD or are just generally not as focused do better in smaller classes, and you can't tell me in today's day and age that those kids are few and far between.

amother

Lemonchiffon

Fri, Apr 08 2022, 2:37 pm

I’ve been a teacher for over a decade and I disagree that a good teacher can be a good teacher, no matter what size class they have. I currently have classes that range from 12 students to 33 students. There is definitely a difference. The large class is an honors class—they’re great students who, theoretically, should be a dream to teach. But classroom management is infinitely more difficult when there are so many students—kids are kids and it’s natural for them to whisper occasionally. When there are 33 kids, it can easily spiral out of control. I also find that I spend a lot less time giving feedback (on assignments and in person) because the marking load is just so high. In my smaller classes, I have time to conference with students individually and really help them strengthen their writing (I teach English).

amother

Lilac

Fri, Apr 08 2022, 3:38 pm

op u clearly are not a teacher
teaching should not be a factory
its not only about control but also about giving students the attention/help they need.

my coworker pays high taxes in a ny town and theres a good public school that her kids go to. But, they all pay for tutors bec even with 25 kids in a class, some students are still lost.

The public schools in nyc that spends more per student than many of us pay in tuition has many failing students bec class sizes are too big etc etc Putting an assistant in the room is not the same.