I need a consequence to stop the violence.

amother

Tue, May 17 2022, 1:53 am

My children are physically aggressive with each other. Hitting, kicking, pulling hair, pinching etc.
We do not discipline them this way so I don't see what I can change in my own behavior. They get angry and triggered at each other, and no matter what I say, this continues.

I want a fair consequence that will get them to think twice. Please don't tell me about charts and prizes- I've done all that- I want something that is very defined, easy to implement, and will help them feel 'the pinch' so that they'll have the motivation to do things differently.

Heyaaa

Tue, May 17 2022, 2:55 am

My kids are like this. I find that it's because I end up taking sides. I take sides which makes the other side feel totally misunderstood. Usually in a fight there is some level of validity to both sides and by taking sides, I am completely negating the other side. It is recommended by all the experts to step away.

I recently spoke to a friend who told me that she has nothing to do with her siblings. She is in her 30s and has no relationship. She explained that when she was younger, instead of teaching her communication, her parents took sides. Instead of learning how to have healthy interactions, she only learned how to separate from him.

Today, I started something new. I asked my kids if they noticed that I am friends with all my siblings. They said yes. I told them about my friend. I asked them which is better, to be an adult who wants to have nothing to do with their sibling or to be like me who is close with all my siblings. Of course they chose the second option. I told them that from now on, I am not getting in between them and instead I am going to teach them the art of communication. I told them, let's start with the current fight, you cannot control your sibling but are you willing to not fight. It took a many times of asking because each person thinks that the other is at fault but I persisted. I got each to agree not to start. Then I asked each side what is bothering them and they explained. I asked each side for solutions and then I chose a solution from each of their solutions and I asked each of them if it can work. They disagreed so I showed how each of them is getting what they want but also compromising a bit. They still weren't happy. I asked for another solution where everyone gets most of what they want but has to compromise on the rest. They couldn't find another solution so eventually they agreed that my solution was the best. And then, they were kind and spoke respectfully to each other. I am still a bit shocked with how loving they were to each other. It seems that they just didn't have the tools to communicate and once they learned the tools, they were able to be friends.

Heyaaa

Tue, May 17 2022, 3:53 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So if one child is a serious bully, I just ignore? If one of my children is being abused I can't do that.

You really have to be willing to hear out their side in order to stop the cycle.

Esther beats up Chaim for no reason. Chaim is small and powerless to defend himself and all he did was make an annoying sound. You get mad at Esther and punish her. The message she learns is that Mommy loves Chaim more than her and that if someone does something I don't like then they must be banished.

To have better communication, you, as the parent have to be the mediator. Mediation requires patience. You have to be willing to sit and listen until you understand the whole picture. You have to be willing to step in before it gets violent. You have to be willing to set aside time to be proactive.

Heyaaa

Tue, May 17 2022, 3:59 am

One of my kids is a bully but I discovered that because child A is bigger and more easily irritated, so I take child B's side because he only does minor things. Child B uses it to my advantage. Child B realized that by doing minor things, Child A will have a blown up reaction which results in me showing extra love and protection for Child B.

I forgot to mention that with the crazy fight in the morning, each child was 100% convinced that the other side was the instigator. Before we got to mediating, it took many minutes to convince each side not to react because each side was positive that they were only reacting and neither believed that they themselves started it. I managed to get each side to agree to not start but I could not get them to agree that if the other one starts that they won't fight back. Once they realized that the other side wouldn't start, they were much more calm and were willing to mediate.

amother

Tue, May 17 2022, 4:50 am

Heyaaa wrote:

Ok so unlike the others, you're saying that I DO need to be there, to listen, to instruct, to mediate- I can't just leave it to them to resolve. I still wish we can take the physical violence out of the picture.

amother

Chartreuse

Tue, May 17 2022, 5:04 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Corner immediately for whoever gets physical. One minute for every year of age. (5yo = 5 min, 10yo = 10 min.) If they do it again they get another sentence.

If you're not sitting calmly we don't count. If you're still not in control when your time is up then you go back. If you're bothering others we don't count. If you play with someone who is in corner, you can have corner too (obviously we warn them and remind them, not just hand out corner).

This works for NORMAL children. Not DMDD children - nothing but meds works for those.

amother

Chartreuse

Tue, May 17 2022, 5:08 am

Iymnok wrote:

In a calmer time, teach them negotiation skills.
Don’t get involved. You don’t have to see everything.

I think that's why Israeli kids on the whole are so much more violent.

Parents stay out of it, teach negotiating skills (I'm not a fryer). But in general let their kids go kafot at each other.

Violence is not okay, it doesn't matter who started it, they can both have consequences. No one is allowed to hurt someone else. If you were right then the moment you lift a hand you are now in the wrong. Period. End of story. No discussions. You want something, you use words. Limbs to yourself.

amother

Chartreuse

Tue, May 17 2022, 5:09 am

amother [ Dahlia ] wrote:

How old are they? How do you currently react when they are violent with each other? I think it's pretty typical, and though counter intuitive, can sometimes be a way of getting parents attention. Try ignoring it and leaving them to work out their own issues. It can take a few weeks, but I saw a big reduction in violence when I stopped reacting to it.

Then they were violent in order to get your attention.

Which could be OP's case but not necessarily.

amother

Caramel

Tue, May 17 2022, 5:43 am

different things work in different situations
family meeting: time for new rules and for everyone no tolerance for physical abuse
your determination your call no discussions
I would let them all know that the more there is discord then the less energy and willingness you have to do optional things for all of them as you also don't want provoking and you can list a few examples.
set up a list of consequences in advance, can be different depending upon ages
older has more privileges an more consequences
you punch smaller kid -- you lose whatever it is for that kid, a ball for a day, dessert, your driving to an optional activity....
think it through, try it at a time you can make it a priority, be as consistent as possible
give it a fair shot like a month
wishing you much success!

amother

Tue, May 17 2022, 6:01 am

amother [ Caramel ] wrote:

Thank you I'm just having a hard time with a fair consequence that's consistent. Otherwise I'm struggling to come up with things depending on what's going on that week. I prefer it to be something very tangible that the child knows will be the outcome of their behavior. For example something like paying a small fee (although my children don't have enough money for that)- but that would be the idea.

amother

Chartreuse

Tue, May 17 2022, 6:15 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So the result of hitting is that people don't want to be near you.
As an adult if you hit you might get arrested.
If you can't control your hands/ feet then you need to take some time out to calm down, away from other people.
Sitting nicely in the corner is good practice for the self-control you need to keep your hands to yourself. You forgot how to control yourself, now we're practicing for _ minutes.

All of these and more tie the violence to the consequence. The corner is simple enough that you can be consistent, and you can give both parties the same consequence with relative ease. (They can sit with their backs to each other in different corners of the room.)

Usually violence is a result of not getting what you want right away. So removing them is very upsetting. Now that they are in corner they can't go back to what they wanted to be doing for that many minutes! So no one wants to end up in corner and they quickly learn not to hurt others.

The only thing I've had my kids complain about this not being fair is that the length of the sentence depends on the age of the kid. But all the experts say one minute per year of age, and it's silly to give a 3yo the same consequence as a 10yo - the 3yo's hitting is still somewhat age-appropriate, the 10yo's is not at all! So they sit as much as is appropriate for their ages and in accordance with how much they were out of line and lost it - it goes up every year.

amother

IndianRed

Tue, May 17 2022, 6:16 am

I have the same issue. I never understood how to ignore it. Last night, dd4 had a little straw toy thing that ds8 thought would be perfect for his project. He tried to grab it from her. She said no. He still tried (he's at least double her size). She kicked her foot to get him away. He tried to fight. She ran to her bed, crying and huddling over her special straw. I took him and held him so he couldn't hurt her. In this case it wasn't even useful for him, which I saw, so I told her she could let him try and he'll see it's not useful. She did and all was fine and dandy. He gave it back and both were happy.

But it doesn't always work so beautifully. Sometimes she has something that is useful for him. That doesn't mean he can take it just because he's bigger and she's scared. I tell him it's not fair that other kids in this house need to feel scared. I wish I had an answer...

How does mediating and not taking sides work when one kid is clearly in the wrong? She's doing something on her own. Not his or anything. He wants to "help." She says no. He starts pushing and she kicks him away. (What's she supposed to do? He's twice her size and grabbing her thing, which will then be messed up.) Then he kicks back and they continue until broken up by me. The little one is hysterical, the big one (who started it!) barely noticed the tiny leg poking him. He just noticed enough to hit back... What's to mediate? LEAVE HER ALONE!!!!

(Usually they all love each other, but when a dd wants space or to do her own thing, we have a big problem.)

amother

Chartreuse

Tue, May 17 2022, 6:17 am

amother [ Lime ] wrote:

How old are they?
I make my children do a re-do, and each one has to explain to the other with words what he had meant to say with his hands/feet. It's hard but it's a necessary skill that gets easier with practice.
I always intervene.

I love that idea but my kids don't cooperate for it.

After they get up from corner they are somewhat calmer and then we do a redo, not as a punishment but as a "let's try this again."

But redos never really worked for me instead of a consequence. The kids just got mad. "Why do I have to do it again? Why should I bother? I'm not doing it again I hate _."

So corner. But with some kids it does work, just to do a redo.