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Forum -> Parenting our children -> School age children
I need a consequence to stop the violence.
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BrisketBoss




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 17 2022, 12:55 pm
mommyhood wrote:
The bolded is super important. I find I jump to discipline the child who is being physically violent but I've learned to stop myself because there's usually a whole backstory that I might be missing. That doesn't mean violence is accepted but I can't punish one while ignoring the other sibling who was driving them crazy just without getting physical.
I do separate them when they fight which is usually enough to calm them down and remind themselves that it's boring to play alone.


Family dynamics are definitely interesting.

Basically what happens is that, obviously without knowing it on a conscious level, siblings work together to keep their parents busy with them and to reaffirm their positions in the family (good child, baby, etc.).
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amother
RosePink


 

Post Tue, May 17 2022, 1:02 pm
If the kids are older, I would stay out of it and let them work it out themselves. If it’s an older kid bullying a younger kid who can’t protect themselves, separate them. Take the younger kid in a room with you and lock the door till the older one calms down. Talk to the aggressive one later and explain that the fighting will not be tolerated.
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#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 17 2022, 1:34 pm
A quick and easy punishment is to take away a favorite toy for the rest of the day.

Or if you give a special snack or dessert, whoever hits loses their treat.
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#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 17 2022, 1:56 pm
If two children are always fighting, then be pre-emptive and make a rule that they are not
allowed to play in the same room.

If one child is in playroom, the other child must play in living room or bedroom.

Make sure they are not seated near each other at table or in car.
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amother
Brown


 

Post Tue, May 17 2022, 2:05 pm
amother [ Lightblue ] wrote:
OP wrote: "Hitting, kicking, pulling hair, pinching etc." Are you seriously going to look away from such behavior? Can't Believe It


I wasn't the person you are quoting but I want to say that sometimes you have to do forensics to learn what really happened.

I came in the house after taking out the garbage and a 5 year old was bawling because 8yo bit him in a few places after he didn't do anything. I was traumatized and my reaction showed it. I was horrified thinking something was seriously wrong with 8yo that she did that. Thoughts were going through my head that she needs serious therapy and I wanted to kick her out of the house. I yelled and ranted that I can't feel safe taking out the garbage for 2 minutes because they are too dangerous for each other. 8yo told me that she hated me and I told them I wanted to hire a babysitter and go on vacation to calm down.
You can all beat me up for my bad reaction, and I know it.

What is the truth? The truth is that they were all playing in my bed. 5yo jumped on 8yo head but didnt realize. 8yo said to get off but 5yo still didnt realize so 5yo stayed on and continued bouncing. 8yo then pinched 5yo. The end. I made up with 8yo as best as I could and I will talk to 5yo about the boy who cried wolf.
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#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 17 2022, 2:08 pm
Thanks for sharing, Brown.

It is very unlikely that a child was hit "for nothing".

That does not mean the hitting was justified.

Some kids have an extremely short fuse and will hit at the slightest provocation.
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Heyaaa




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 17 2022, 2:09 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
If two children are always fighting, then be pre-emptive and make a rule that they are not
allowed to play in the same room.

If one child is in playroom, the other child must play in living room or bedroom.

Make sure they are not seated near each other at table or in car.


As I mentioned earlier, I have a friend whose parents did that and now she has nothing to do with her siblings. By doing that, she learned that the best way to deal with her siblings is to avoid them as much as possible.

I have tried the punishing for bad behavior and it results in the kids having more animosity. The only thing that works in my family is to sit and hear each side and realize that, as someone else said, "the 'victim' is usually not so innocent". Only after you realize that each side was wronged can you explain that there is a better way to handle being wronged. If you don't first allow each side the opportunity to feel heard and acknowledged then they won't be able to learn to do it better.
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amother
Brown


 

Post Tue, May 17 2022, 2:14 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Thanks for sharing, Brown.

It is very unlikely that a child was hit "for nothing".

That does not mean the hitting was justified.

Some kids have an extremely short fuse and will hit at the slightest provocation.


Thanks for understanding. About the bolded, the problem was that I went to the zero tolerance for violence without first learning what happened, why did it happen, and how much violence was there.
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#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 17 2022, 2:23 pm
Heyaaa wrote:
As I mentioned earlier, I have a friend whose parents did that and now she has nothing to do with her siblings. By doing that, she learned that the best way to deal with her siblings is to avoid them as much as possible.

I have tried the punishing for bad behavior and it results in the kids having more animosity. The only thing that works in my family is to sit and hear each side and realize that, as someone else said, "the 'victim' is usually not so innocent". Only after you realize that each side was wronged can you explain that there is a better way to handle being wronged. If you don't first allow each side the opportunity to feel heard and acknowledged then they won't be able to learn to do it better.


I had a sister that I did not get along with for years as kids/teens.

And today we are close.
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Heyaaa




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 17 2022, 2:39 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
I had a sister that I did not get along with for years as kids/teens.

And today we are close.


But did your parents do this? I'm asking, not trying to put down. I am trying to get the best advice for my kids.

"If two children are always fighting, then be pre-emptive and make a rule that they are not
allowed to play in the same room.

If one child is in playroom, the other child must play in living room or bedroom.

Make sure they are not seated near each other at table or in car."
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amother
IndianRed


 

Post Tue, May 17 2022, 4:30 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I appreciate all the suggestions.
Does the 'corner' or a time-out work with children ages 8 and up?

When my older sister was about 12, I remember my father tried to give her a "time out" in her room. He'd read about it in a magazine or something. But she had a phone in there and called her friend to laugh about it...
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amother
Currant


 

Post Tue, May 17 2022, 4:45 pm
I find giving a small punishment which is more symbolic than painful to the child very helpful.

I'll say, if you hit others, I'll have to take some off from the snack I will be giving soon. When I have to follow through, the child becomes visibly upset and we talk about why I did that and what we need to do next time (communicate verbally)

I remember my parents doing the same to me as a child. I felt the pinch, it hurt. Because it was a consequence parents can follow through on. And if a parent shoes disappointment rather than anger, it helps too.
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behappy2




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 17 2022, 4:45 pm
The only time I put an 8 plus kid in time out is if they are not being safe at the moment to others or to me and in general need to let off steam and be alone.

Whatever you do I would love if you can update us and let us know if it's working.
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Heyaaa




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 18 2022, 12:16 am
behappy2 wrote:
The only time I put an 8 plus kid in time out is if they are not being safe at the moment to others or to me and in general need to let off steam and be alone.

Whatever you do I would love if you can update us and let us know if it's working.


With an 8yo and I would put her in time out 2-3 times a year. if it's more frequent then it means that the 8yo needs calming down techniques, not banishment.
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amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Wed, May 18 2022, 12:40 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I appreciate all the suggestions.
Does the 'corner' or a time-out work with children ages 8 and up?

Yes.

We don't send to their rooms because they have toys in their rooms. Like someone else said about a kid who had a phone in her room. There are no toys in the corner and no toys are allowed to be brought to the corner.

If all a child has in their room is a bed and clothes then maybe...
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amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Wed, May 18 2022, 12:45 am
Heyaaa wrote:
But did your parents do this? I'm asking, not trying to put down. I am trying to get the best advice for my kids.

"If two children are always fighting, then be pre-emptive and make a rule that they are not
allowed to play in the same room.

If one child is in playroom, the other child must play in living room or bedroom.

Make sure they are not seated near each other at table or in car."

Exactly. We tried this for a short period and what ended up happening was that they really resented each other's existence and presence. "It's not fair that because s/he is in the kitchen I can't go in there." "I hate her/him, because s/he is playing in the living room, I can't play in there, it's not fair."

And then you had them trying to figure each other's intentions out and get there and sit down to play just before the other child did, so that they could be the one in that room and control where the other got to play.

REALLY REALLY REALLY BAD

Also seating them purposely far away means that if they are trying to get each other, the child/ren in between them get hurt by the two fighters' hits/kicks/reaching.

REALLY REALLY REALLY BAD
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amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Wed, May 18 2022, 12:46 am
amother [ Currant ] wrote:
I find giving a small punishment which is more symbolic than painful to the child very helpful.

I'll say, if you hit others, I'll have to take some off from the snack I will be giving soon. When I have to follow through, the child becomes visibly upset and we talk about why I did that and what we need to do next time (communicate verbally)

I remember my parents doing the same to me as a child. I felt the pinch, it hurt. Because it was a consequence parents can follow through on. And if a parent shoes disappointment rather than anger, it helps too.

So we sometimes do use food as punishment or reward but we really try hard not to. Taking away from snack sends a message that food is a rewards for being good, and hunger/ limits on food is a punishment for being bad.

Which sets them up for eating disorders later in life.

Sometimes we are at a loss and do end up resorting to this kind of thing but this is one of the reasons we use corner as our default, instead of snack or treats. The default should never be food deprivation.
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amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Wed, May 18 2022, 12:49 am
behappy2 wrote:
The only time I put an 8 plus kid in time out is if they are not being safe at the moment to others or to me and in general need to let off steam and be alone.

Whatever you do I would love if you can update us and let us know if it's working.

Hitting, kicking, biting, pinching, pushing, pulling hair....don't count as the bolded?

Corner is for violence.
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amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Wed, May 18 2022, 12:58 am
Heyaaa wrote:
With an 8yo and I would put her in time out 2-3 times a year. if it's more frequent then it means that the 8yo needs calming down techniques, not banishment.

Yes and no.

Yes the child needs calming down techniques, no it might not be that the parent hasn't taught them.

Sometimes the child has self-regulation issues that the parent can't necessarily solve just by teaching skills. Regardless of the child's own issues that need therapies or meds, the other children in the family deserve to be safe and the parent does need to ensure in the immediate sense that the violent child is removed from the scene and learns that no matter what your difficulties are, no matter how you feel, it is not okay to be violent.
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Heyaaa




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 18 2022, 3:25 am
amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:
Yes.

We don't send to their rooms because they have toys in their rooms. Like someone else said about a kid who had a phone in her room. There are no toys in the corner and no toys are allowed to be brought to the corner.

If all a child has in their room is a bed and clothes then maybe...


I have actually told a kid to bring a book or something enjoyable to the room because the goal is that they should be able to relax and come out in a better mood.
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