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Living below our means
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amother
Gardenia


 

Post Thu, May 19 2022, 11:16 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
He’s a lawyer in Big Law. If he stays with his firm, or any Big Law firm, next year he will be making $255k, the next year $280k etc, with bonuses.


That’s awesome. Then I stand by my original comments which is that you have every right to live and let loose a little bit. You are not being irresponsible in the slightest and it’s not easy to be married to a lawyer so you definitely deserve it!
As for all of those retirement saving ideas, I’m probably in the minority here but that’s just not my thing. You have more than enough saved up already for a house with plenty of savings left over.
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amother
Gardenia


 

Post Thu, May 19 2022, 11:20 pm
amother [ Chicory ] wrote:
I actually think that your husband has some very strong money values in place. He understands the value of the small dollars and how they add up fast. I don't think there's anything wrong with him.
It also sounds like these discussions end up in arguments with your husband thinking you don't understand the value of money. It also seams to be reoccurring because possibly he doesn't feel heard and understood?
I do like the idea of having your own discretionary money.
Would you try a conversation something like this:
You: I know you were upset with how I bought ____ the other day.
Husband: yes why are you trying to constantly waste money. There was no need to buy that, we could have done well without that...
(You: instead of feeling attacked and controlled, focus on the value, he sees the importance of the small dollar. And also focus on the fact that he DOES take care of you and your needs, shaitel)
You: yes I understand that you feel it's important to spend each dollar wisely and with consideration.
Him: yes and......
You: (just listen, don't interupt, let him get it all out.)
You: I'm so grateful to have a husband who is making such a good living and is so responsible with money. I do see the value in you looking out for our family's future.. I feel so taken care of. And even got a new shaitel that makes me feel so loved
Him: I'm glad
You: I was wondering if we could figure out a small amount of money that could be considered an important weekly expense that I could choose to use as I see fit. I would love something like that. For non-essential expenses so that there is an understanding that it's not unlimited, we are still saving and being responsible but I do have some flexibility to make so choices with a bit of extra money.
---
Important though, FIRST hear him out. Then appreciate all he brings and his value. Then find a happy solution.
Hope you get what you need with shalom bayis too!


I think this is a great conversion script!
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paperflowers




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 20 2022, 12:42 am
It sounds like you have different money priorities, specifically in regards to “extras.” He wants to splurge on larger, rarer things like vacation, while it’s more important to you to splurge on smaller things that make your daily life easier. Your budget should be set up based on a compromise of what both of you want.
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amother
SandyBrown


 

Post Fri, May 20 2022, 1:37 am
I didn't read through the whole thread but red part of it. We struggled for many many years and each purchase was a big deal. When we finally started making some money it was a very big mind shift for us. It started slowly but actually adding meat to our budget and now we have actually added at least one reasonably priced vacation throughout the year. I actually look at the credit card bills and my husband doesn't actually know what we spend except for what the total is. He's just too busy working to care. But it's funny because if we go out to dinner he doesn't want to spend $100 but he's happy to Shell out for a new patio furniture. I mean we do go out and he does pay but for some reason he finds that harder than a big purchase. Sounds like your husband might be a bit similar. Just wanted to say that you should definitely be enjoying your money especially when you're not just throwing it out. I agree with my other posters that said maybe you need to speak to somebody like a financial therapist. Because it could turn out to be into something big when it doesn't need to be a big problem. You should be able to continue enjoying your life and continue being successful! And they must say one of the nicest things has been able to give a nice amount to tzedekah again. We went so many years without being able to give anything. We are in Israel and sometimes when someone comes to our door and my husband truly feels that his story is true and he has letters he's able to give him 200 shekels.
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dinglehopper




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 20 2022, 2:24 am
Honestly, if he is so concerned about saving, you should be putting money into a 401K plan for retirement. The sooner you start the sooner it begins to grow and multiply. Everyone should be doing this instead of leaving money in your savings account or checking account.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Fri, May 20 2022, 2:24 am
The structure of Big Law is that a few associates will make equity partner, but most will not. So while he's earning well now, there are no guarantees for the future. If you get used to living well and then you have to downgrade, life will be hard. Do you have the sense that he's on track to make partner?

Yes, he seems really anxious about money. It's fine to say that "item X is necessary" and point out that you are spending responsibly.
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amother
Gray


 

Post Fri, May 20 2022, 6:50 am
amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:
The structure of Big Law is that a few associates will make equity partner, but most will not. So while he's earning well now, there are no guarantees for the future. If you get used to living well and then you have to downgrade, life will be hard. Do you have the sense that he's on track to make partner?

Yes, he seems really anxious about money. It's fine to say that "item X is necessary" and point out that you are spending responsibly.


Even if he doesn’t make partner and becomes of counsel or goes to another smaller firm (to make partner there perhaps) he’ll be earning quite nicely. Obviously no guarantees of that but it’s unlikely he’ll suddenly be earning a really low salary.
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amother
Antiquewhite


 

Post Fri, May 20 2022, 6:57 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I wasn’t sure if I should post this here or in a marriage forum, but I guess I’ll see what responses I get here.

We are a relatively young couple (3 little kids, high 20s), with a generous income BH. We are both money conscious and are still saving for a house (we currently rent). We don’t deprive ourselves but we don’t overspend either, I buy my kids cheap clothes and spend about $900 on groceries a month and we spend $2-$3k a year on vacation. I just bought my first new sheitel after 5 years of marriage. To give you some context, last year we spent about $70k and saved $110k (though tuitions were low and we are still getting free Medicaid because of Covid).

There are times that I will splurge on toys or clothes or takeout and my husband will get upset and say that I am wasting all out money. Even when I show him our finances spreadsheet that I update monthly, and point out that we saved $5k last month or whatever, it’s like it doesn’t get through to him. He is still convinced I don’t care about finances and I am wasting all our money and “why should he work so hard”.

For example, I mentioned that maybe we should install CarPlay in our car (we enjoyed it in our vacation rental) and he went on a rant about how I don’t value money. I agree with his sentiment of not wasting money, especially because our expenses will only rise each year (though his company gives large raises each year too) and we don’t own a home yet (and the market is crazy), but at the same time, what’s the point of him working so hard (he works very long hours in a demanding job) if he doesn’t let himself enjoy some of it!!

I will point out that generally when it comes to spending on “experiences”- vacation, shows, etc, my husband is not stingy. We know we have the money so when we need to make a large purchase it doesn’t stress us out. He was happy for me to buy a new sheitel and would have no problem with me getting another one. It seems like smaller “frivolous” purchases bother him more.

I’m not sure if I’m just venting or looking for guidance. But can anyone share with me if I have the wrong approach to finances, with me wanting to sometimes just enjoy our money instead of hoarding it? And if I don’t have the wrong approach, how can I come to understand his point of view, and how can I get him to ease up a little bit?

Add another kid or two, pay tuition, and you'll see that it's getting kind of tight.

You are relatively young, living well now, keep saving and buy what you need, but don't waste on stuff you don't need.

From your description it doesn't sound like you are living poorly or like he is financially controlling. It sounds like he is trying to live well but without waste, save as much as you can but without taking away from what you need or experiences you want to have.

You need to have a talk with him but it seems like he's reasonable and financially responsible and I tend to agree with his approach 100%.

Also housing prices and inflation are likely only to rise. So every dollar you save now towards a house and every quarter earlier you can buy, you will be better off. If you easily saved $5k last month, see if you can save $6k every month starting from this month.
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amother
Lightyellow


 

Post Fri, May 20 2022, 7:05 am
dinglehopper wrote:
Honestly, if he is so concerned about saving, you should be putting money into a 401K plan for retirement. The sooner you start the sooner it begins to grow and multiply. Everyone should be doing this instead of leaving money in your savings account or checking account.


It sounds like they're first saving for a house though
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amother
Vanilla


 

Post Fri, May 20 2022, 7:36 am
This was us at your age. We made many stupid decisions because my husband wanted to save save save and was terrified of investments. Hes still like this but I've been successful in very tiny ways to help him make tiny changes. The big difference here is our earning potential. Your husband will probably always have a good job and earn a lot, my husband will never. His jobs probably contribute to his 401k and has benefits. We have to create our own retirement plan. So whereas when we were young I hated it and I still stand by my opinion that we were stupid to just save (putting 300k down on a house but not renovating it and not investing any of it), at this point we have no choice to live frugally. I budget our money to include some discretionary funds but I am hardly a spender anymore. I have a lot of regrets from our younger years, I don't see how living so tightly really helped us be happier but it is what it is.
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amother
Aquamarine


 

Post Fri, May 20 2022, 7:55 am
if you can buy expensive things, but you can't buy small things that bring you joy - its not about $. its about control and not seeing you as an equal decision maker in the household. Never argue about individual things you bought and he's against , you will never end. Just work on establishing that there needs to be guidelines when things need to be a decision for both of you - (big purchases) and t things that you should be making these decisions yourself. and that goes for him too. He shouldn't be able to buy himself a big ticket item without consulting you.
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amother
Chestnut


 

Post Fri, May 20 2022, 8:17 am
This is hardly about money. Your husband coming down on you for petty spending when you actually contribute to the finances, is just not nice. It sounds like a trust issue your husband has with you and with hashem. Your husband should spend the hour learning or being with his kids, not saving train fare. This is very distorted. My van is older than you, doesn't fit all my kids in it and there have been times we were too poor to afford the train but we probably ate peanut butter sandwiches for a week and took the train home. I value saving, and strongly educate my kids that way too, but just until the point where you lord over the money, right now your money, lords over you.
Learn some chovos halvavos shaar bitachon every night see if it doesn't help your husband to remember the source and purpose of money.
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seltzermom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 20 2022, 8:29 am
amother [ Chestnut ] wrote:
This is hardly about money. Your husband coming down on you for petty spending when you actually contribute to the finances, is just not nice. It sounds like a trust issue your husband has with you and with hashem. Your husband should spend the hour learning or being with his kids, not saving train fair. This is very distorted. My van is older than you, doesn't fit all my kids in it and there have been times we were too poor to afford the train but we probably ate peanut butter sandwiches for a week and took the train home. I value saving, and strongly educate my kids that way too, but just until the point where you lord over the money, right now your money, lords over you.
Learn some chovos halvavos shaar bitachon every night see if it doesn't help your husband to remember the source and purpose of money.


I agree with this. I stopped trying to run after making another dollar or saving a dollar. Money belongs to God and I try my best to use it to fuel. our Jewish lifestyle. Hashem takes care of the rest. End of story.

I see how at times Hashem made sure we got a raise, or he threw some big unexpected expense at us, and we just went with the flow. Because we are anyway in God’s hands.

I’m know someone who saved for years and then when approaching fifty years old lost most of their savings in an investment. That really taught me a lot!

We are not in control. The more we surrender to Hashem the more Hashem reveals to us how he provides our needs always.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Fri, May 20 2022, 9:14 am
amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:
The structure of Big Law is that a few associates will make equity partner, but most will not. So while he's earning well now, there are no guarantees for the future. If you get used to living well and then you have to downgrade, life will be hard. Do you have the sense that he's on track to make partner?

Yes, he seems really anxious about money. It's fine to say that "item X is necessary" and point out that you are spending responsibly.


Why did this get a hug? Dh is a retired Big Law partner. I know the system. Lawyers who move laterally out of these firms will continue to make a nice living, but few will go on to make millions. This is a career where your first job pays a lot, but if you don't make partner, you may hit your peak earning in your 30s, not your 50s.

If your income is going to stall, it's not good to get used to spending like the money is going to keep rolling in. You're not guaranteed a continuously rising income.
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amother
Ivory


 

Post Fri, May 20 2022, 9:31 am
amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:
Why did this get a hug? Dh is a retired Big Law partner. I know the system. Lawyers who move laterally out of these firms will continue to make a nice living, but few will go on to make millions. This is a career where your first job pays a lot, but if you don't make partner, you may hit your peak earning in your 30s, not your 50s.

If your income is going to stall, it's not good to get used to spending like the money is going to keep rolling in. You're not guaranteed a continuously rising income.


This is very true! DH was on a partner track in big law and making good $$ and then a mini recession hit and all the firms had major layoffs and the first to go were the associates earning the most money who hadn't yet made partner. So many lawyers were out of jobs and no firms were hiring at that level. DH was out of work for a while before ending up in a government job that has better hours but pays significantly less. B"H we had plenty of savings and investments and already owned a house.
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amother
Midnight


 

Post Fri, May 20 2022, 9:38 am
I live in Boro Park- what free Medicaid bec of COVID for people making $230k net?
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amother
Gardenia


 

Post Fri, May 20 2022, 9:46 am
amother [ Ivory ] wrote:
This is very true! DH was on a partner track in big law and making good $$ and then a mini recession hit and all the firms had major layoffs and the first to go were the associates earning the most money who hadn't yet made partner. So many lawyers were out of jobs and no firms were hiring at that level. DH was out of work for a while before ending up in a government job that has better hours but pays significantly less. B"H we had plenty of savings and investments and already owned a house.


So what? Mid 200s is a beautiful income even down the line when expenses go up with lots of kids tuitions and camps and braces etc. Don’t understand the fear mongering and people saying they aren’t making it and then they tell everyone to live like paupers. That is a beautiful amount of money and you should absolutely let yourself enjoy some of it.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Fri, May 20 2022, 9:55 am
amother [ Gardenia ] wrote:
So what? Mid 200s is a beautiful income even down the line when expenses go up with lots of kids tuitions and camps and braces etc. Don’t understand the fear mongering and people saying they aren’t making it and then they tell everyone to live like paupers. That is a beautiful amount of money and you should absolutely let yourself enjoy some of it.


I wish that were true.
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amother
Gardenia


 

Post Fri, May 20 2022, 9:59 am
amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:
I wish that were true.


Do the breakdown.
250k is 21k per month. That’s more than enough if u are spending responsibly.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Fri, May 20 2022, 10:08 am
amother [ Gardenia ] wrote:
Do the breakdown.
250k is 21k per month. That’s more than enough if u are spending responsibly.


First, taxes and tzedakah. On a salary of 230k, you're paying top tier taxes. Second, tuition, mortgage, health care. Third, maybe summer camp and cleaning help once a week. I'm not even factoring in weddings and other simchas.

It adds up quickly, just read some of the threads here. It's a great income for a young family, but as you add more kids and expenses, you're not going to be feeling rich on that income in large US cities. And I'm not talking about fancy clothes, vacations or full-time help. Just life.
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