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Forum -> Household Management -> Finances
How and why aren't people working?



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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, May 22 2022, 12:38 am
I don't want this to become a political thread.


My gardener tells me he can't find guys to work. The local kosher supermarket guy says guys are quitting. I spoke to a few business owners and they say they can't find people to work.

I understand for awhile many were getting enhanced unemployment and were paid to not work. For awhile there were rent moratoriums so maybe some decided they'll stay home. But that all stopped months ago. How are people not taking jobs? How are they buying food, clothes, housing and whatever else people need to live?
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amother
Caramel


 

Post Sun, May 22 2022, 12:40 am
They can get better jobs that are less work for more pay.
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amother
Clover


 

Post Sun, May 22 2022, 12:41 am
They want cheap labor.
And its becoming a thing of the past.
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amother
Midnight


 

Post Sun, May 22 2022, 12:41 am
People are quitting because they have better job opportunities at better pay.

Yiur gardener and the grocery store worker are offering wages that are lower than they can get somewhere else where the conditions are better and there might be benefits.
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amother
Amber


 

Post Sun, May 22 2022, 12:47 am
Just because someone quits their job doesn’t mean they aren’t working. They are probably working elsewhere. It’s an employees market.
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amother
Seashell


 

Post Sun, May 22 2022, 12:51 am
When low income people get all the resources, respect, and subsidized income in America, why would somebody want to work ?
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amother
Midnight


 

Post Sun, May 22 2022, 1:34 am
amother [ Seashell ] wrote:
When low income people get all the resources, respect, and subsidized income in America, why would somebody want to work ?


Why are you assuming they aren’t working.

They are quitting low paying dead end jobs and taking better paying jobs with better working conditions.

It is very hard to hire people for low wage jobs now because there are so many available and workers can be more selective.

Gardening and being a worker at a kosher grocery store are not highly desirable positions. I suspect they paid minimum wage and no benefits. Gardening is hard work and they can make as much if not more in a better job
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amother
Lightyellow


 

Post Sun, May 22 2022, 2:15 am
I also had this question especially since I just saw in the news in the uk where I live that unemployment is at an all time low and job vacancies for skilled work is at an all time high.
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amother
Broom


 

Post Sun, May 22 2022, 3:01 am
Some places are still giving benefits.
Rent - you cant evict them. I know someone who bought a place but it had tenants. They still cannot evict, even for landlord occupancy (they want to move in!!), for A YEAR after the city stops removing the "emergency order". And the city just renewed it. Why is there still an emergency order?

I know people are easily getting disability money (without a real medical reason why they can't work), food stamps, Medicaid etc. The local Medicaid office is barely checking but does refuse if they are working now.

When welfare programs are robust, people DO refuse to work. I know from professional experience based on where I work. We work with a Medicaid program that helps clients get jobs. And the clients who are making nothing now also refuse to even apply for jobs...
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amother
Daphne


 

Post Sun, May 22 2022, 3:47 am
That's right, servants, back to your work! Why are you idling?

Honestly, what is it to you what other people do?
Would you like people to start asking the same kind of questions about SAHMs or men learning in kollel and qualifying for benefits?
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 22 2022, 6:30 am
maybe the cost of housing in your area is too high for people on minimum wage jobs.
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, May 22 2022, 8:30 am
amother [ Daphne ] wrote:
That's right, servants, back to your work! Why are you idling?

Honestly, what is it to you what other people do?
Would you like people to start asking the same kind of questions about SAHMs or men learning in kollel and qualifying for benefits?



Not not really.


I see several here are saying that low income/unskilled earners are getting better jobs.

This is only anecdotal evidence but I needed my gardener to remove some bushes last week. I spoke to him around lunchtime. He said if he calls any of his guys now for a half days work (and pay) they won't pick up the the phone.

Another fact that contradicts the theory of workers getting better jobs is that labor participation is still around 200k below pre pandemic levels. Meaning that while the economy is adding a few hundred thousand jobs every months, we are still slightly behind were we were in February 2020.
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amother
Midnight


 

Post Sun, May 22 2022, 9:46 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Not not really.


I see several here are saying that low income/unskilled earners are getting better jobs.

This is only anecdotal evidence but I needed my gardener to remove some bushes last week. I spoke to him around lunchtime. He said if he calls any of his guys now for a half days work (and pay) they won't pick up the the phone.

Another fact that contradicts the theory of workers getting better jobs is that labor participation is still around 200k below pre pandemic levels. Meaning that while the economy is adding a few hundred thousand jobs every months, we are still slightly behind were we were in February 2020.


Your anecdotal evidence about the gardener proves the point.

He does NOT have these workers on a full time salary even at minimum wage. They have found better jobs where they can work full time and are guaranteed work.

So they are not available because they are working elsewhere on jobs that guarantee them a full day of work.

My GC needs to finish up a few odds and ends from my remodel and scheduling anyone for an odd job is impossible because he wants his workers to continue to work full time rather than pull them from a full time work site to finish up at my place for a few hours.

I am not going to comment on your statistics because it is too easy to go down rabbit holes in terms of comparing what any numbers actually mean.

Everything I have read indicates that there is a shortage of workers in lower paid positions. Some places like restaurants have been forced to cut hours of operation. Some places like McDonalds are paying $18 per hour in certain locations.
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, May 22 2022, 9:56 am
amother [ Midnight ] wrote:
Your anecdotal evidence about the gardener proves the point.

He does NOT have these workers on a full time salary even at minimum wage. They have found better jobs where they can work full time and are guaranteed work.

So they are not available because they are working elsewhere on jobs that guarantee them a full day of work.

My GC needs to finish up a few odds and ends from my remodel and scheduling anyone for an odd job is impossible because he wants his workers to continue to work full time rather than pull them from a full time work site to finish up at my place for a few hours.

I am not going to comment on your statistics because it is too easy to go down rabbit holes in terms of comparing what any numbers actually mean.

Everything I have read indicates that there is a shortage of workers in lower paid positions. Some places like restaurants have been forced to cut hours of operation. Some places like McDonalds are paying $18 per hour in certain locations.



For the record, my gardener employs his guys a full day. He said that if he calls them midday and to work a half day, they won't bother. It's not enough money for them to get out of the house.


Are you saying that unskilled workers (people who stock shelves at the supermarket) are getting more skilled jobs for higher partly or are the getting the same unskilled jobs for better pay?
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amother
Broom


 

Post Sun, May 22 2022, 10:02 am
amother [ Daphne ] wrote:
That's right, servants, back to your work! Why are you idling?

Honestly, what is it to you what other people do?
Would you like people to start asking the same kind of questions about SAHMs or men learning in kollel and qualifying for benefits?


I do ask the same questions. This is more a political discussion but taxes shouldnt be supporting those who choose not to work but can work. Like I said, I work with Medicaid eligible population (full time I might add!!) And many choose not to work. Why work when you get food, medical care, cash assistance etc all given freely without working?
I work hard but feel absolutely frustrated seeing these people not work but living off my taxes.
No one is calling these people servants. Someone wanted to hire her gardener for pay but couldn't get anyone available. Or supermarket employees. These jobs are usually what are called "unskilled"- people without specialized training and even a GED. I work with this population. These jobs are supposed to be stepping stones for better and future employment. Either they get training, experience etc or they work while getting their GED etc.

What is your solution?
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Amarante




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 22 2022, 10:10 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
For the record, my gardener employs his guys a full day. He said that if he calls them midday and to work a half day, they won't bother. It's not enough money for them to get out of the house.


Are you saying that unskilled workers (people who stock shelves at the supermarket) are getting more skilled jobs for higher partly or are the getting the same unskilled jobs for better pay?


I don't understand your first paragraph. He either employs people full time with a guarantee of a full week of work or he has people he calls when he needs a few hours of work and they are unavailable.

From what I have read the "unskilled" workers are able to get higher paying jobs with better conditions.

If you are a grocery worker you can get a job at one of the major supermarket chains and get higher wages plus benefits. They are all hiring.
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 22 2022, 10:19 am
it sounds like he is employing people on a zero hours contract. Or he is an agent connecting workers workers with employers. Why would someone take a job with unreliable hours if there are better ones available?
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BrachaBatya




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 22 2022, 10:23 am
I notice that so many here on Ima discuss receiving government assistance. It's part of the the ugly stereotype of many frum Jewish communities. "Oh those Jews live off of the government." Not a good look.
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, May 22 2022, 10:38 am
Amarante wrote:
I don't understand your first paragraph. He either employs people full time with a guarantee of a full week of work or he has people he calls when he needs a few hours of work and they are unavailable.

From what I have read the "unskilled" workers are able to get higher paying jobs with better conditions.

If you are a grocery worker you can get a job at one of the major supermarket chains and get higher wages plus benefits. They are all hiring.



Good question. I don't know the details of his employment agreement with his workers, but I hear you. It could be he has regular full time guys who do the traditional stuff like mowing lawns and planting seeds. I called him in middle of the week and he came over and I showed him some bushes I needed removed. He told me if he calls his guys now, they won't come because it's only a half day.

But to my original question, say a big supermarket like pomegranate in the middle of bklyn. I know they are having trouble getting cheap unskilled workers for around (guessing) $17 an hour. Is that because those workers are going to the supermarket across the street and getting better pay for the same job?
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Amarante




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 22 2022, 10:46 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Good question. I don't know the details of his employment agreement with his workers, but I hear you. It could be he has regular full time guys who do the traditional stuff like mowing lawns and planting seeds. I called him in middle of the week and he came over and I showed him some bushes I needed removed. He told me if he calls his guys now, they won't come because it's only a half day.

But to my original question, say a big supermarket like pomegranate in the middle of bklyn. I know they are having trouble getting cheap unskilled workers for around (guessing) $17 an hour. Is that because those workers are going to the supermarket across the street and getting better pay for the same job?


I think you are misunderstanding what your gardener is telling you. He wants his workers at places where he has scheduled full time work. Your job is too small and so it is difficult to fit into his schedule. If you use him regularly he will schedule your bushes when they are their on their regular slot. If you don't use him regularly he probably has no interest in your small job because he is using his work force on a schedule to maximize their time.

If there are limited workers and many employers seeking those kinds of workers, of course there will be difficulty finding workers. For many years it was an employers' market and so workers had no choice but to take any minimum wage job. Now the employers have to compete to find workers for the relatively low paid jobs. Supply and demand has shifted and the workers have found better jobs - off the top of my head both Costco and Trader Joes have higher wages and benefits for their workers and most large grocery chains have higher wages plus benefits and the ability to earn more so the positions aren't dead end.
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