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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
Am I the only one... S/O Tuition Raises
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, May 24 2022, 5:03 pm
Am I the only one whose happy to send to a school that has a high tuition & raises it so they can pay their teachers/rebbeim well? Who doesn't consider giving a teacher a livable salary "bloated"? Am I the only one who realizes that teachers don't work for 2 hours a day because we expect so much of them at any hour of the day and if we don't get the service we deserve from them/our schools there are multiple threads on imamother about how incapable our schools are and the whole system needs to be changed? No, I am far from wealthy and I will most likely not get much of a break if any, but I want good Morahs for my kids and don't want them quitting mid year the minute something more desirable comes up or when they get engaged and need to support their kollel husband and realize their morah salary is just not going to cut it.

You can throw tomatoes at me and tell me I misunderstood what everyone is complaining about (even though I quoted other threads verbatim), but I don't think it's crazy to raise tuition and pay our teachers the salary they deserve.

Going to duck for cover now.
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amother
Sunflower


 

Post Tue, May 24 2022, 5:13 pm
Sorry can't relate.
I live OOT where there is only one school - and it's awful to put it nicely. Every year the school makes excuses of why they had a "hard" year and next year will be so much better. But that hasn't happened yet. And yes, they've raised the tuition consistently despite the educational standards not having raised.
My DDs teacher doesn't show up to school or leaves early, probably twice a week.
Yes we've discussed moving, no it can't happen right now for various reasons
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amother
Emerald


 

Post Tue, May 24 2022, 5:22 pm
I'm in total agreement... if I could afford it.

Here's my tuition bills for the year:

High School #1: $15,200
High School #2: $13,371
School #3: $11,200
School #4 (multiple kids): $18,400
Total: $58,171

...And how much I still owe:
High School #1: $8,242
High School #2: $5,817
School #3: $6,170
School #4: $6,120
=$26,349

As much as I support the idea of higher salaries for teachers in theory, in practice it means that I will have a very hard time giving my kids any kind of education at all. (No we don't take vacations, buy rib steaks, get food stamps, lease a fancy car, buy brand name clothing, or have air conditioners in every room.)
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amother
Wheat


 

Post Tue, May 24 2022, 5:23 pm
I'm with you. I've seen the differences in my kids school we're one is always having random substitutes and new teachers come and go. The other school, tuition is more but teachers are steady year to year. Many have actual degrees and are experienced. (We wanted to switch out oldest one but dc didnt want to leave their friends) I have friends who are teachers in both of the schools. One tried to get a job in the expensive school but they're full. They're known to pay and treat their staff well.

Edited for spelling
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amother
Bellflower


 

Post Tue, May 24 2022, 5:33 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Am I the only one whose happy to send to a school that has a high tuition & raises it so they can pay their teachers/rebbeim well? Who doesn't consider giving a teacher a livable salary "bloated"? Am I the only one who realizes that teachers don't work for 2 hours a day because we expect so much of them at any hour of the day and if we don't get the service we deserve from them/our schools there are multiple threads on imamother about how incapable our schools are and the whole system needs to be changed? No, I am far from wealthy and I will most likely not get much of a break if any, but I want good Morahs for my kids and don't want them quitting mid year the minute something more desirable comes up or when they get engaged and need to support their kollel husband and realize their morah salary is just not going to cut it.

You can throw tomatoes at me and tell me I misunderstood what everyone is complaining about (even though I quoted other threads verbatim), but I don't think it's crazy to raise tuition and pay our teachers the salary they deserve.

Going to duck for cover now.


You are clearly not struggling financially or you wouldn't say this. And I'm saying this as someone who pays full tuition. No I don't want to see my tuition keep going up. Honestly I see no improvement in the quality of anything as my tuition bill gets higher and higher. I really wish private schools would open their books and show the salary of the administration. And justify a lot of the staff that may or may not be necessary. Maybe if I would see where my money was going I wouldn't be so annoyed. I would love to know where the millions in covid money went since I wasn't offered any breaks as a result of it. (yes the schools got...it is public information). I really believe that if private schools had to answer how they allocate their funds things would be different.
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, May 24 2022, 5:42 pm
amother [ Bellflower ] wrote:
You are clearly not struggling financially or you wouldn't say this. And I'm saying this as someone who pays full tuition. No I don't want to see my tuition keep going up. Honestly I see no improvement in the quality of anything as my tuition bill gets higher and higher. I really wish private schools would open their books and show the salary of the administration. And justify a lot of the staff that may or may not be necessary. Maybe if I would see where my money was going I wouldn't be so annoyed. I would love to know where the millions in covid money went since I wasn't offered any breaks as a result of it. (yes the schools got...it is public information). I really believe that if private schools had to answer how they allocate their funds things would be different.


So that's where you're wrong. Cuz as I said we are def not wealthy at all. Far from it actually. I know the school pays their teachers well and that's exactly where our money is going to. It's a known thing and while I am not in chinuch I am from a chinuch family. I believe our children know exactly where we prioritize and what we say about the schools they go to. They know when we kvetch about tuition etc even if it's valid. Read the Lakewood teachers thread and you will understand that these ladies kvetching about the tuition going up 2k (and no one will tell me to what) is so out of line.
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amother
IndianRed


 

Post Tue, May 24 2022, 5:51 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Am I the only one whose happy to send to a school that has a high tuition & raises it so they can pay their teachers/rebbeim well? Who doesn't consider giving a teacher a livable salary "bloated"? Am I the only one who realizes that teachers don't work for 2 hours a day because we expect so much of them at any hour of the day and if we don't get the service we deserve from them/our schools there are multiple threads on imamother about how incapable our schools are and the whole system needs to be changed? No, I am far from wealthy and I will most likely not get much of a break if any, but I want good Morahs for my kids and don't want them quitting mid year the minute something more desirable comes up or when they get engaged and need to support their kollel husband and realize their morah salary is just not going to cut it.

You can throw tomatoes at me and tell me I misunderstood what everyone is complaining about (even though I quoted other threads verbatim), but I don't think it's crazy to raise tuition and pay our teachers the salary they deserve.

Going to duck for cover now.


I won't throw tomatoes at you for your comments about teachers and rebbeim, but I will throw tomatoes at you for not understanding what kind of a strain that puts people under.

I think most people would be happy to send to a school as you describe above - IF they'd somehow be able to swing it. But so many people CAN"T swing and would be forced to choose between tuition or food. These people can't choose what they WANT, they have to choose what they NEED. Food and shelter rank higher than tuition.
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amother
Tangerine


 

Post Tue, May 24 2022, 5:55 pm
OP, your post is nice in theory. but what if we do not have a couple extra thousand dollars to put towards tuition?
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amother
Watermelon


 

Post Tue, May 24 2022, 5:57 pm
amother [ IndianRed ] wrote:
. Food and shelter rank higher than tuition.


But vacations and segways and restusrants do not.
I’m cynical.

The airports are full of frum ppl around vacation season. Frum ppl live in mega mansions. The restaurants are packed and charge top dollar.

I don’t see tuition being a top priority for most ppl today.

I used to live in a simple town. The fanciest place to eat was a pizza shop. Vacation was a park. A large house was 2000 sq ft. Ppl killed themselves to pay tuition.

I’m sure everyone sees the shift of priorities.
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amother
Watermelon


 

Post Tue, May 24 2022, 5:59 pm
amother [ Emerald ] wrote:
I'm in total agreement... if I could afford it.

Here's my tuition bills for the year:

High School #1: $15200
High School #2: $13371
School #3: $11200
School #4 (multiple kids): $18,400
Total: $58,171

...And how much I still owe:
High School #1: $8,242
High School #2: $5,817
School #3: $6,170
School #4: $6,120
=$26,349

As much as I support the idea of higher salaries for teachers in theory, in practice it means that I will have a very hard time giving my kids any kind of education at all. (No we don't take vacations, buy rib steaks, get food stamps, lease a fancy car, buy brand name clothing, or have air conditioners in every room.)


Just to compare some schools in lkwd still charge 4500 per kid and parents are complaining about increasing to 5500. Per year.
(My boys are 8500, girls 4500, boy mesivta 10000)
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amother
Tangerine


 

Post Tue, May 24 2022, 5:59 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
So that's where you're wrong. Cuz as I said we are def not wealthy at all. Far from it actually. I know the school pays their teachers well and that's exactly where our money is going to. It's a known thing and while I am not in chinuch I am from a chinuch family. I believe our children know exactly where we prioritize and what we say about the schools they go to. They know when we kvetch about tuition etc even if it's valid. Read the Lakewood teachers thread and you will understand that these ladies kvetching about the tuition going up 2k (and no one will tell me to what) is so out of line.


Fine, you are not wealthy. But can you afford to pay full tuition, plus cover all of your other expenses? If so, then you are much better off than many other people. The women kvetching about the extra 2k really do not have an extra penny to spare.

Personally, I have not been able to make a deposit in my savings account for over a year. Things have gotten really hard financially, and we are living hand to mouth. It is a chutzpah of you to downplay the effect a 2000 raise per child will have on many families. Be grateful if it won't affect you.
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, May 24 2022, 6:01 pm
amother [ Watermelon ] wrote:
But vacations and segways and restusrants do not.
I’m cynical.

The airports are full of frum ppl around vacation season. Frum ppl live in mega mansions. The restaurants are packed and charge top dollar.

I don’t see tuition being a top priority for most ppl today.

I used to live in a simple town. The fanciest place to eat was a pizza shop. Vacation was a park. A large house was 2000 sq ft. Ppl killed themselves to pay tuition.

I’m sure everyone sees the shift of priorities.


I agree with this, and like I said we are not well off and most def do not do any of these things. But you can't argue with all of these posters because they will tell you it's not true. I saw someone on a dif tuition thread say this but more directed at the community and let me tell you about tomatoes...

For those who really can't pay there are tuition committees even if they're tough to deal with and don't give the breaks we like.
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amother
Bellflower


 

Post Tue, May 24 2022, 6:02 pm
Now that the teachers are getting more money then maybe they don't need to qualify for the tuition breaks and chinuch initiatives anymore.
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, May 24 2022, 6:02 pm
I am not downplaying the effect and I am sorry if it comes across like I am. I can't pay full tuition and my tuition is a lot more than the ppl with the 2k shift. I think we need to take a little bit of a different outlook on things and stop complaining about "bloated" salaries and tuition and start viewing whatever you can on your own level as a worthwhile investment.
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amother
Tangerine


 

Post Tue, May 24 2022, 6:03 pm
amother [ Watermelon ] wrote:
But vacations and segways and restusrants do not.
I’m cynical.

The airports are full of frum ppl around vacation season. Frum ppl live in mega mansions. The restaurants are packed and charge top dollar.

I don’t see tuition being a top priority for most ppl today.

I used to live in a simple town. The fanciest place to eat was a pizza shop. Vacation was a park. A large house was 2000 sq ft. Ppl killed themselves to pay tuition.

I’m sure everyone sees the shift of priorities.


Speak for yourself. The last time I was in an airplane was when I flew a few years ago with a child for a medical appointment. I don't own a home, let alone a mega mansion. The last time I went out to eat in a restaurant was I don't know how many years ago.

It is a priority for many of us. But we have many competing priorities. Rent, food, diapers, bare minimum clothing and shoes, health insurance, car insurance etc etc. Its not fair to say that we could all.afford more tuition if we wanted to. Many, many of us cannot.
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amother
Fern


 

Post Tue, May 24 2022, 6:06 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I agree with this, and like I said we are not well off and most def do not do any of these things. But you can't argue with all of these posters because they will tell you it's not true. I saw someone on a dif tuition thread say this but more directed at the community and let me tell you about tomatoes...

For those who really can't pay there are tuition committees even if they're tough to deal with and don't give the breaks we like.


It's not that they don't give the breaks we like.
It's not that they're tough.
It's that they don't give us the breaks we need BECAUSE we both work.
And I have to deal with 4 different schools so each one only gives a tiny deduction.
It's not about segways and restaurants and vacations.
It's figuring out if I can afford to buy tights without holes and a bra for my daughter this month after tuition payments.
It's figuring out if maybe we don't need to go to the Dr because a copay is $40.
It's figuring out if we can not use the car this week because we don't have the $100 to fill up the gas tank and the electric bill is past due.
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amother
Cyan


 

Post Tue, May 24 2022, 6:06 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Am I the only one whose happy to send to a school that has a high tuition & raises it so they can pay their teachers/rebbeim well? Who doesn't consider giving a teacher a livable salary "bloated"? Am I the only one who realizes that teachers don't work for 2 hours a day because we expect so much of them at any hour of the day and if we don't get the service we deserve from them/our schools there are multiple threads on imamother about how incapable our schools are and the whole system needs to be changed? No, I am far from wealthy and I will most likely not get much of a break if any, but I want good Morahs for my kids and don't want them quitting mid year the minute something more desirable comes up or when they get engaged and need to support their kollel husband and realize their morah salary is just not going to cut it.

You can throw tomatoes at me and tell me I misunderstood what everyone is complaining about (even though I quoted other threads verbatim), but I don't think it's crazy to raise tuition and pay our teachers the salary they deserve.

Going to duck for cover now.


Yes agree with you 100% I want high quality teachers for my children who love teaching and are passionate about torah and yiddishkeit.

Coming from a former teacher who loved teaching and could not stay due to the salary..
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amother
Hibiscus


 

Post Tue, May 24 2022, 6:16 pm
amother [ Watermelon ] wrote:
But vacations and segways and restusrants do not.
I’m cynical.

The airports are full of frum ppl around vacation season. Frum ppl live in mega mansions. The restaurants are packed and charge top dollar.

I don’t see tuition being a top priority for most ppl today.

I used to live in a simple town. The fanciest place to eat was a pizza shop. Vacation was a park. A large house was 2000 sq ft. Ppl killed themselves to pay tuition.

I’m sure everyone sees the shift of priorities.

Wow, so I get hit twice. First by the fact that we barely make ends meet, let alone do ANY of the things on your list, and second, now we have to pay more tuition because other people have money? How does that even make sense?

Why don't you just go after the people you mentioned and leave me alone?
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amother
Tiffanyblue


 

Post Tue, May 24 2022, 7:08 pm
I don’t think that many teachers are getting raises. I just left my job because my salary was abysmal and I can’t pay my bills.

quote="amother [ Bellflower ]"]Now that the teachers are getting more money then maybe they don't need to qualify for the tuition breaks and chinuch initiatives anymore.[/quote]
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amother
Junglegreen


 

Post Tue, May 24 2022, 7:36 pm
Round and round we go. People here act like they know everything.

The schools are not ripping you off, and not every teacher is required to be destitute as a job description. Everyone acts like if ONLY they just showed all of them how much they were spending, and they could save a whole $200,000 by firing every teachers assistant and turning off the water, then tuition will magically go down to $100 a kid. Oh and the school will run just fine with one teacher per 35 kids in a class.

People are delusional. School budgets are millions of dollars. And your penny pinching is going to make that reality disappear?

In Lakewood, there’s the added factor that you don’t want to be at the “bad school”. So now, they figure you can pay everyone in administration $50,000, and all the principals will stay and NONE of them will leave. The truth is the only one willing to work for that price will instantly launch the school into the “bad school” range, so now everyone will scramble to get into the one school who charges normal tuition so that they can get good teachers and maintain their good reputation.
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