Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> The Social Scene
Which is worse- verbal insults or hitting?
Previous  1  2



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h



Which is worse- hurtful language or hitting?
Getting physical is always worse  
 27%  [ 41 ]
Words can hurt even more  
 26%  [ 39 ]
They're equally bad  
 45%  [ 68 ]
Total Votes : 148



amother
Bisque


 

Post Tue, Mar 29 2022, 9:53 am
amother [ Daisy ] wrote:
Words are worse because it leaves the victim doubting if the abuse even existed.

I am SO grateful for the times when my abusive mother slapped me on the face when I was 20 and pulled my pinky nail off. Those are my proofs to everyone and to myself that she really is abusive and it's not all in my head.

BTW my dad spanked me but he's a great dad and in no way abusive.

I remember so many times my mother restrained me so hard I couldn't breathe, digging her long nails into my arms, and then when I bit her hand to force her to release the pressure she gave me mussar about kibud eim and how I don't care about aseres hadibros and only pretend to be frum.

You're going to be "omg that's awful" about the physical abuse but it doesn't affect my daily life and it hasn't for over a decade. But if I told you the verbal abuse you would tell me she didn't mean it, I misunderstood it, I misjudged her, she was upset, it came out wrong, she was probably responding to something I did, if I was nicer to her she'd be nicer to me, if I want her to speak nicely to me then I should do this and that, she didn't do anything wrong and she was right to say those things because I embarrassed her, I deserved to be spoken to like that because I was chutzpadik when I insisted I was telling the truth and I was innocent.

To this day after years of therapy I still often think it's in my head and I need reminders from others who have dealt with her (DH, MIL, sometimes a sibling) that it is NOT all in my head. I need reminders like how she treated my child and how she treats people doing her favors when it's not 1000% perfect exactly the way she wanted the favor, to remind me that it's not in my head.

Verbal abuse is much worse. Much worse.

It's too bad my mother didn't leave bruises. Maybe CPS would've gotten involved, maybe a teacher would've reached out to me, maybe my extended family would have believed me instead of always siding with my mother.

Oh and the physical abuse doesn't leave tapes in your head that you repeat to your children when things get too overwhelming and you are too short on sleep and support. Physical abuse you can break the cycle by keeping your hands to yourself and finding a stress ball or something to squeeze or going for a power walk. Verbal abuse? Try changing the tapes in your head about how you see yourself and how you speak to your children, on 2 hours of sleep a night.

VERBAL ABUSE IS ABUSE AND IT IS WORSE.

Some may disagree with me. Some may not like my answer. That's okay.


I was also physically abused and I think you're in denial about how much harm can come from physical abuse alone. Read The Body Keeps the Score. Feeling unsafe for your physical health changes your brain makeup and gives you lifelong cptsd.
Back to top

amother
Celeste


 

Post Tue, Mar 29 2022, 9:56 am
A. Emotional abuse can be WAAAAAY more damaging then physical abuse. It's damages a part of our psyche that's way deeper than skin. This is written about in psychology books

AND

B. In my book, chris rock did nothing wrong.
Back to top

smss




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 29 2022, 10:03 am
DrMom wrote:
Wait -- Are you really saying that even if there is no medical issue, comedians should not make fun of anybody's hair without checking with them first?

Sorry, that is completely ridiculous.

This guy is a professional comedian. He's performing at the Oscars, where it is customary to poke fun at the other actors. He's not going to stand up there and tell kindergarten-style knock-knock jokes.


So I didn't know this part about poking fun at specific people being a part of the Oscars every year until late last night. I still don't actually think it's ok. Not everything that is common and customary is ok. But I think that does change the picture a little.

ETA: only if he truly didn't know about the alopecia which I don't know if that's been confirmed or not...


Last edited by smss on Tue, Mar 29 2022, 10:26 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top

smss




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 29 2022, 10:08 am
amother [ Daisy ] wrote:
Words are worse because it leaves the victim doubting if the abuse even existed.

I am SO grateful for the times when my abusive mother slapped me on the face when I was 20 and pulled my pinky nail off. Those are my proofs to everyone and to myself that she really is abusive and it's not all in my head.

BTW my dad spanked me but he's a great dad and in no way abusive.

I remember so many times my mother restrained me so hard I couldn't breathe, digging her long nails into my arms, and then when I bit her hand to force her to release the pressure she gave me mussar about kibud eim and how I don't care about aseres hadibros and only pretend to be frum.

You're going to be "omg that's awful" about the physical abuse but it doesn't affect my daily life and it hasn't for over a decade. But if I told you the verbal abuse you would tell me she didn't mean it, I misunderstood it, I misjudged her, she was upset, it came out wrong, she was probably responding to something I did, if I was nicer to her she'd be nicer to me, if I want her to speak nicely to me then I should do this and that, she didn't do anything wrong and she was right to say those things because I embarrassed her, I deserved to be spoken to like that because I was chutzpadik when I insisted I was telling the truth and I was innocent.

To this day after years of therapy I still often think it's in my head and I need reminders from others who have dealt with her (DH, MIL, sometimes a sibling) that it is NOT all in my head. I need reminders like how she treated my child and how she treats people doing her favors when it's not 1000% perfect exactly the way she wanted the favor, to remind me that it's not in my head.

Verbal abuse is much worse. Much worse.

It's too bad my mother didn't leave bruises. Maybe CPS would've gotten involved, maybe a teacher would've reached out to me, maybe my extended family would have believed me instead of always siding with my mother.

Oh and the physical abuse doesn't leave tapes in your head that you repeat to your children when things get too overwhelming and you are too short on sleep and support. Physical abuse you can break the cycle by keeping your hands to yourself and finding a stress ball or something to squeeze or going for a power walk. Verbal abuse? Try changing the tapes in your head about how you see yourself and how you speak to your children, on 2 hours of sleep a night.

VERBAL ABUSE IS ABUSE AND IT IS WORSE.

Some may disagree with me. Some may not like my answer. That's okay.


I am so sorry. And I'm even sorrier that when you've told people about the verbal abuse, they've downplayed it or justified it or defended your mother. I wish they had believed you 😔
Back to top

amother
Daisy


 

Post Tue, Mar 29 2022, 5:15 pm
amother [ Bisque ] wrote:
I was also physically abused and I think you're in denial about how much harm can come from physical abuse alone. Read The Body Keeps the Score. Feeling unsafe for your physical health changes your brain makeup and gives you lifelong cptsd.

We can agree to disagree.

I'm okay with people thinking I'm in denial about how much harm can come from verbal abuse alone. I want you to know that physical abuse isn't the only thing that causes physical harm. Verbal abuse can cause physical harm too, by pushing children to addiction and self-harm and suicide.

Even if I am in denial about how bad physical abuse can get, there are ten times MORE people in denial about how much harm verbal abuse can cause. So I'll be in the minority, if I can educate even a drop of the majority I've done good. They don't even have to agree with me, just recognize that they were way wrong.
Back to top

amother
Charcoal


 

Post Tue, Mar 29 2022, 5:23 pm
I was both verbally and physically abused as a child.
The physical abuse made me think bad things about my parents.
The verbal abuse made me think bad things about myself.
That will not be everyone's experience and I think it is meaningless to try to qualify one being worse than the other.
Both are awful.
Both are violating and painful and damaging.
Which is worse?
Whichever one is going on at the moment.
Back to top

amother
Daisy


 

Post Tue, Mar 29 2022, 5:29 pm
smss wrote:
I am so sorry. And I'm even sorrier that when you've told people about the verbal abuse, they've downplayed it or justified it or defended your mother. I wish they had believed you 😔

Thank you.

The challenge here is that a lot of things that constitute verbal abuse can also be said in ways that aren't abusive. So the line is very blurry and the distinction very unclear. There's a lot of gray.

The difference is in the context here. Not the words.
Back to top

amother
Daisy


 

Post Tue, Mar 29 2022, 5:31 pm
amother [ Charcoal ] wrote:
I was both verbally and physically abused as a child.
The physical abuse made me think bad things about my parents.
The verbal abuse made me think bad things about myself.

That will not be everyone's experience and I think it is meaningless to try to qualify one being worse than the other.
Both are awful.
Both are violating and painful and damaging.
Which is worse?
Whichever one is going on at the moment.

I think you hit the nail on the head, for almost everyone who experienced both.
Back to top

amother
Garnet


 

Post Tue, Mar 29 2022, 5:35 pm
amother [ Charcoal ] wrote:
I was both verbally and physically abused as a child.
The physical abuse made me think bad things about my parents.
The verbal abuse made me think bad things about myself.
That will not be everyone's experience and I think it is meaningless to try to qualify one being worse than the other.
Both are awful.
Both are violating and painful and damaging.
Which is worse?
Whichever one is going on at the moment.


As a fellow survivor I couldn't agree more.
The beatings, hair pulling pushing and hitting all passed. And I hated her for it.
But the emotional psychological and verbal abuse is what I still struggle with close to 2 decades later.

In the contexts of the Oscars, I still don't see what Chris did wrong. Especailly that he didn't know she suffers from alopecia. And Will totally thought that joke was hilarious before he saw her eye roll.....
Back to top

amother
Whitewash


 

Post Tue, Mar 29 2022, 5:36 pm
It depends on the abuse severity and frankly I think this is not a productive or helpful question.

My parents’ words made me feel worthless and unloved, and their abuse, emotional neglect, and general poor parenting taught me self-hatred and maladaptive behaviors that made me a mess as an adult until I realized I needed help.

If my father had “only” gotten angry and hit me I would have been better off, but it was never bad enough to send me to the hospital or leave me with lasting physical damage. If it had been then my answer might be different, or I might be brain-damaged or dead and not able to answer this question at all.
Back to top

chanatron1000




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 29 2022, 5:37 pm
Emotionally and verbally abusive parents and spouses are capable of doing damage because of their role as parents and spouses.
Back to top

ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 30 2022, 1:00 pm
I think it's a mistake to conflate abuse, bullying, offensive humor, and opinions.

Like, a really really big mistake.

The guy in the original tweet is making a dumb logical leap from "it's not OK to hit someone just because they hurt your feelings one time (without meaning to)," to "verbal abuse isn't real abuse." Most people would agree with the first. Few would say the second.
Back to top

ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 30 2022, 3:12 pm
The line people are drawing between verbal and physical violence isn't because one hurts more, or is worse, etc.

The issue is:

Let's take Shimon and Reuven.

How easy is it for Shimon to avoid hurting Reuven physically? Pretty easy! Unless Shimon is doing something highly illegal, there's no reason that hurting Reuven would ever need to be a part of his daily life.

How easy is it for Shimon to avoid hurting Reuven's feelings? A lot harder.

Maybe Shimon is orthodox, and Reuven converted through the Reform movement. Reuven is deeply hurt that Shimon doesn't view him as truly Jewish.

Maybe Shimon thinks that it's impossible for a biological man to become a woman or vice versa, and Reuven identifies as Rachel.

Or maybe they're just two good friends, and 99% of the time Reuven finds Shimon's humor hilarious, but 1% of the time Shimon goes too far and hurts his feelings.

Even if Shimon is just going about his normal daily life, his beliefs and opinions are going to be deeply offensive to a whole lot of people.

And if "my feelings are hurt" = "you hurt my feelings" = "you committed violence against me," then a lot of people arguably have the right to hit Shimon in self-defense. Just because he exists and expresses his own thoughts and feelings.

Of course verbal abuse exists, too. Of course sometimes it's deliberate cruelty and not just a side effect of living your own life. But there's a much much bigger range, everything from deliberate abuse to an innocent mistake to saying a truth that people don't want to hear, and labeling it all "violence" is a problem in a way that labeling every slap "violence" just isn't.
Back to top

honeymoon




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 30 2022, 3:39 pm
amother [ Daisy ] wrote:
Words are worse because it leaves the victim doubting if the abuse even existed.

I am SO grateful for the times when my abusive mother slapped me on the face when I was 20 and pulled my pinky nail off. Those are my proofs to everyone and to myself that she really is abusive and it's not all in my head.

BTW my dad spanked me but he's a great dad and in no way abusive.

I remember so many times my mother restrained me so hard I couldn't breathe, digging her long nails into my arms, and then when I bit her hand to force her to release the pressure she gave me mussar about kibud eim and how I don't care about aseres hadibros and only pretend to be frum.

You're going to be "omg that's awful" about the physical abuse but it doesn't affect my daily life and it hasn't for over a decade. But if I told you the verbal abuse you would tell me she didn't mean it, I misunderstood it, I misjudged her, she was upset, it came out wrong, she was probably responding to something I did, if I was nicer to her she'd be nicer to me, if I want her to speak nicely to me then I should do this and that, she didn't do anything wrong and she was right to say those things because I embarrassed her, I deserved to be spoken to like that because I was chutzpadik when I insisted I was telling the truth and I was innocent.

To this day after years of therapy I still often think it's in my head and I need reminders from others who have dealt with her (DH, MIL, sometimes a sibling) that it is NOT all in my head. I need reminders like how she treated my child and how she treats people doing her favors when it's not 1000% perfect exactly the way she wanted the favor, to remind me that it's not in my head.

Verbal abuse is much worse. Much worse.

It's too bad my mother didn't leave bruises. Maybe CPS would've gotten involved, maybe a teacher would've reached out to me, maybe my extended family would have believed me instead of always siding with my mother.

Oh and the physical abuse doesn't leave tapes in your head that you repeat to your children when things get too overwhelming and you are too short on sleep and support. Physical abuse you can break the cycle by keeping your hands to yourself and finding a stress ball or something to squeeze or going for a power walk. Verbal abuse? Try changing the tapes in your head about how you see yourself and how you speak to your children, on 2 hours of sleep a night.

VERBAL ABUSE IS ABUSE AND IT IS WORSE.

Some may disagree with me. Some may not like my answer. That's okay.


I agree with everything you said. I'm sorry for the awful way you were treated. You didn't deserve it.

In the context of a caregiver/child relationship I believe verbal/emotional abuse does a level of harm that lodges itself so deeply into the psyche of a person where it becomes a part of the person's identity.

Physical abuse, as absolutely awful as it is, is more tangible and real and as a result a person can have clear memories of the abuse and even describe it in words. Verbal abuse is often subtle and subliminal yet devastatingly poisonous, and it's often not possible to explain or relay, leaving the person to deal with baggage of something they are not even sure really happened to them. It adds a whole new layer of confusion and self loathing.
Back to top

honeymoon




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 30 2022, 3:43 pm
amother [ Bisque ] wrote:
I was also physically abused and I think you're in denial about how much harm can come from physical abuse alone. Read The Body Keeps the Score. Feeling unsafe for your physical health changes your brain makeup and gives you lifelong cptsd.


Emotional abuse also lodges itself in our bodies and causes physical symptoms and illness. Feeling unsafe emotionally will give you lifelong cptsd with physical symptoms too. And as an added bonus you also doubt yourself all your life if the abuse really happened.
Back to top

a2z




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 27 2022, 3:42 am
My question, what is worse: potching or yelling?
(At a kid for doing something really wrong )
Back to top

amother
Ginger


 

Post Mon, Jun 27 2022, 11:10 am
Hitting hurts while it happens.

Insults can hurt every time you recall them.
Back to top

amother
Mulberry


 

Post Mon, Jun 27 2022, 11:22 am
amother [ Ginger ] wrote:
Hitting hurts while it happens.

Insults can hurt every time you recall them.

Hitting can cause severe PTSD.

Just ask any therapist that takes care of abused children. It continues hurting and affecting development and relationships forever.

People who suffer physical violence continue hurting and developing trust issues. It doesn't stop at the moment. And hitting can lead to death.

Verbal abuse many times escalates to physical abuse, but it is violence by itself. The effects of someone who is verbally abused is similiar to the physical abused. Trust issues, humiliation, anger, doubting oneself, low self esteem.
Back to top

amother
Peru


 

Post Mon, Jun 27 2022, 11:33 am
I was frequently abused verbally and occasionally physically. My mother would always call us "lousy good-for-nothings" or tell us to go throw ourselves in the nearest garbage can. When she was angry at us (and that was pretty much every day), the entire neighborhood heard her roar. She always called us "you stupid kids" and cursed at us. We would cower in fear when she raised her voice at us. If we ever dared to lose a shoe or spill a drink, we knew we were in deep trouble.

She didn't hit us often, but she did sometimes, and once she banged my sister's head into mine because we were fighting.

I would say the physical abuse hurt more, but the verbal abuse left deeper scars. Even though we knew it was our mother's issue more than ours, most of us grew up to be shy, socially awkward adults who lacked self-esteem.

I will say that none of us raise our voices at our kids, and I know that when my husband does, it's very triggering for me and I immediately beg him to stop.

(Believe it or not, my mother is known to be the most giving person in the community. She has a houseful of poor unfortunate souls every Shabbos, and she doesn't know how to say no to anyone. She was actually very giving to us as well, but she just had a temper that was completely out of control.)
Back to top
Page 2 of 2 Previous  1  2 Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> The Social Scene

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Experienced mommies and OTs... WHY IS HE HITTING?
by amother
39 Sun, Jan 21 2024, 12:29 pm View last post
Hitting, hurting?
by amother
37 Fri, Nov 24 2023, 10:01 am View last post
S/O can't wrap my head around intentional hitting thread
by amother
48 Mon, Nov 20 2023, 9:55 am View last post
Ds hitting 5 Wed, Oct 18 2023, 12:32 am View last post
Husband hitting
by amother
167 Fri, Sep 15 2023, 12:07 am View last post