How to determine who gets a free package

amother

Rose

Tue, Jul 12 2022, 7:51 am

amother [ Nemesia ] wrote:

Your attitude is wrong. If you’re not willing to do any research to determine whose more needy and deserving then you will have ppl getting who shouldn’t be getting. That’s on you,

I disagree. OP, you're doing great. Call back the Rav. For a $300 gift it should be on the recipient to be honest. You just continue making the offerings. I would only change my mind if you become flooded with specifically suspicious requests, or you suddenly receive a significantly larger number of requests.

snailmail

Tue, Jul 12 2022, 8:15 am

cookiewriter wrote:

Hi. I run a gemach. We give something out for babies for free. Value about $300. (Although we do not pay $300- we get wholesale or cheaper)
When we started the gemach we were told in order to determine if someone is “poor enough” we should call a rav as a reference. However it’s intensely uncomfortable for the families, many don’t want to have a rav knowing their private business or don’t have a rav who knows their financial situation. It’s uncomfortable and annoying for us to have to bother rabbanim, sometimes calling multiple times to get through. And many speak yiddish only, which we do not.
Bh we have grown immensely and are giving out many packages. I personally stopped asking for rav number. I ask the caller
“Is the family financially needy”
And I feel like if they’re lying it’s on them. between them and Hashem
If someone is asking for help, I assume they need it.
But other ppl who run this gemach feel like
Some ppl think Gemach is for anyone who needs and ppl are just going to take advantage of us even if they can well afford the items we give out.
And because we were told originally a psak to ask a rav if they’re really poor we are obligated to continue doing so?

However it’s no longer feasible we cannot call rabbanim every day we don’t have the time!

Please advise

Having a baby costs money. Plus I would understand that the woman may be out of work for maternity leave, not getting paid (or reduced pay), so finances for most people are tight (nevermind the current economy). Even so, the package you provide may also save a lot of time, effort and stress if they get an entire package rather than shopping around, even if they can afford it.
I would suggest a form that they fill out stating they are actually needed it, with a rabbi as a reference (you can call if you are able to), but also say that if they can afford to pay for some of it they should eg, its worth $300, but cost price is $200, if you can pay for this, or even give donation for $100 to support the cause. Maybe they cant afford it now, but in 6 months they would be able to pay for it, or pay on a monthly plan.

For example, pesach shopping costs a fortune for everyone. I was not looking for a handout, but could do with paying wholesale prices for majority of items, which would ease the pinch.

amother

Cerise

Tue, Jul 12 2022, 8:42 am

They should apply by email and an auto response email should read something like Dear new mom mazel tov! As part of our service to help new moms in the ...community, we are providing x as a gift thanks to our generous sponsors. If you feel you could benefit financially from this item and would not otherwise be able to afford it we would be most happy to send you one. While supplies last. Please fill in this form with your information. To sponsor ...

But know what your goal is - is it just a financial help for those who are slightly struggling which is many many people - many kollel ppl will say this will help them even though their parents may give them some money as a baby gift and may not NEED NEED it but it would still be helpful for them and not taking advantage if you would agree.

If it's only for truly needy people that are on the bread line and don't have what to dress their baby in or have a hard time buying formula then be clear about that in a sensitive way as well and then I think there should be some way of checking

amother

Cerise

Tue, Jul 12 2022, 8:46 am

Surrendered wrote:

Exactly what happyone said.
It is not very bchovedig to call and ask for a gemach package. Usually only people who are really struggling or someone who knows of a family who is struggling, will reach out for help.
It's really degrading and lowers the dignity of the person to be asked for proof of their financial situation.
You're not offering loads of money, it's basic baby necessities which people would purchase if they would be able to.

I would agree with you in principle but where I live they once were offering a free pesach package to a certain group of people "who otherwise couldn't afford it"

I know many rich people who took advantage of the package even though they were living in fancy apartments and living off credit cards and could have well managed without. And I know this for a fact. We did not take it even though we could have benefitted because we "could manage without" and don't need to take for the sake of taking

So yes unfortunately some people do like to take freebies and sometimes they are also unaware of who it's really meant for

Jello

Tue, Jul 12 2022, 8:57 am

OP, I think that you are doing a great chessed, and I completely understand your dilemma. Here's the way I see it: Verifying that the recipient is truly "in need" takes up your valuable time and energy, and may also discourage people who are truly needy from reaching out. It's embarrassing enough to ask, for many in need. However, not verifying means that many of your hard-earned resources may go to people who are abusing the service.
I really liked one of the ideas above (I lost track of who posted this, hat tip to whoever you are!):
Include within the package a letter with an empty addressed envelope explaining that this is a tzedaka fund, and that it comes from communal tzedaka money. Then add, when you or your family is in a position to pay this chessed forward, please consider donating money so that others can benefit.

cookiewriter

Tue, Jul 12 2022, 9:26 am

OP HERE. Wow kol hakavod to all who answered. I am so impressed. Incredible ideas. And thanks to those who are giving me chizuk as this takes a lot of work. We fundraiser once a year and so far we have had enough to give everyone who needed. The general gist I’m getting is I don’t have to dig into peoples financial situations, most ppl truly need. But to clarify it a bit further and maybe have them fill out a form and include an envelope to “pay it forward “ a bit when they can.

amother

Diamond

Tue, Jul 12 2022, 10:19 am

How poor does the person have to be. A family member is related to a few finacialy well people with Gamachs and get us from all. He sees we are struggling but I feel bad taking. for example baby clothes I might spend on a brand new carseat, or 1 very expensive baby set that I my baby wears all the time in public. but dont have enough baby clothes because my $100 baby clothes buget was divided as
1$60 set worn all the time in public
3 new clearence carters or tottini sale sleepwear and 1 pack new bodysuit
1 fancy $60 hand me down 2years ago style from last baby
bodysuits all from last baby and a few random outfits that have milk stains.
I desperately need more baby outfits but just spent alot on one because I wanted my baby beautiful up to date. Than this family member sends us to a gemach. They get brand new very basic jewish store body suits, and baby outfits 2 sizes so I could use for 2 seasons.I use it all. But wonder if I was allowed to take I wonder if he gives alot of money to gemach and thats why he sends us. because I would feel uncomfortable going there myself. because I dont fell poor enough. As far as putting an envelope in I feel funny with that too. I ran out of money from my own budget this will give me extra to move around with.should 1 make my buget 10 less and send it to gemach. whatever they hive us we use. They also provide cleaning help b"h I have mininimum hour cleaning help so I dont feel very poor. but with a new baby my hours are not enough having extra help will greatly be like additional support would it be wrong or right to take?

cookiewriter

Tue, Jul 12 2022, 4:22 pm

amother [ Diamond ] wrote:

This is why I don’t want to start chasing after rabbanim. It’s the kind of thing s oerson has to know she’s taking tzedaka and she knows whether she needs it or not

amother

Seashell

Tue, Jul 12 2022, 6:32 pm

amother [ Diamond ] wrote:

It’s not how poor. If you need you take. If you are going to be saving the money to jet off to Florida or Israel or buy designer bags and clothes then don’t take. People sometimes think these gemachs are like the food boxes and even if you don’t need them why not get them and save some money. But it’s not free government handouts and you shouldn’t take just because it’s free. But in your case I would definitely take.

pause

Wed, Jul 13 2022, 7:37 am

Where I live many people utitilize a gemach even if they're not poor because why not get it for cheaper or free. If they don't find what they need at a gemach, they'll go to a regular store and pay full price. They view it as getting a good deal, not taking advantage of tzedaka.

I disagree with people saying that if you call a gemach, you must be desperate.

OP, somehow you need to make it very clear (and you've gotten some ideas here already), that this is tzedaka money and the person should evaluate for themselves if they are needy enough to be entitled to tzedaka.