Lace tops vs. Lace wigs - which one is questionable?

amother

Gardenia

Wed, Jul 20 2022, 3:30 pm

amother [ Obsidian ] wrote:

Those who are deliberately misunderstanding are not yet ready to hear or accept the truth. Unfortunately , they will also dismiss what the Chofetz Chaim said on the matter.

From the way they write, it appears that their Rav knows better than the Chofetz Chaim and other Gedolim.

Why would you resurface darkgreens posts at all? Just leave them to rest where they should stay. Please.

amother

Mocha

Wed, Jul 20 2022, 3:50 pm

amother [ Snowdrop ] wrote:

Now you are just plain old obfuscating. You were quite clear in that original post that you want to be obviously seen as a married "woman", it would be "embarrassing" to be assumed to be an unmarried "girl". Every one of your posts that attempt to twist things around to prove that wasn't what you mean is just pointless because a reread of your original post makes it quite clear that you view someone who appears to be unmarried as embarrassing and a lesser status. It's ok to be seen as "young" (by non-Jews) but not okay to give up the status of being viewed as married (in the frum world).

No pointless apologies, please. Believe me, your posts are not causing me pain. Just annoyance, I thought we had come a bit further than this in the frum world but every now and then I am reminded we still have a long way to go. Reminds me of the annoying know-it-alls who would insist on loudly giving brachos or saying IYHBY to me in front of others, even when I (or others) had privately told them I didn't appreciate it. Just an insistence on staying stuck in their narrow minded pov. Ironically, one of those people now has an unmarried daughter who is close to 30 and her mom now has a better understanding of this--she kinda sorta apologized or at least acknowledged the inappropriateness to my mom about the way she spoke/acted towards me during those years. Not that I or my mom ever said anything to her, I guess she realized it now on her own, now that her daughter is dealing with unwanted comments and such.

To answer your question as clearly as I can: since you refer to yourself as a woman and say you are 30 years old, then consider any frum singles of that age as women, too. If you want to call them girls, that's fine, but then you should refer to yourself as a girl, too. Chronologically, there's no difference. If you are embarrassed to be labeled a girl, then think about why.

And, no point, in continuing to argue with me about this, because I'm not going to continue debating
you and whatever spin you try next. I have made my point as clearly as I can and I feel my posts stand on their own.

I dont want to be seen as a girl as if Im not doing the mitzva of covering my hair properly.

amother

Daphne

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 8:11 am

I've only skipped through a bit, but I feel the need to chime in. Not about lace per se, but the general attitude I was seeing in the first few pages of comments (I didn't get much further)
I don't wear a shaitel. I primarily wear wraps, but often plain squares or berets. I don't agree with shaitels, but I generally keep it to myself as many of my friends wear them.
My biggest issue with shaitels is that it is the only mitzvah that people try to fulfill by pretending they're not fulfilling it.
For those that have quoted Rav Moshe Z"tzl, my understanding of his psak was that "even if a man can't tell, women can" which I've personally never understood. But even so, the shaitels during his time were VERY different, and nowadays, I can tell someone's hair is covered maybe half the time.
If you walk into a room full of frum women, and can't at a glance discern who is married and who isn't, that feels hugely problematic.
Nowadays, telling someone "omg, I couldn't even tell it was a shaitel!" Is like, the height of a compliment you can give.
The ads for shaitels, the culture around them, the MONEY! It rubs me the wrong way, and it all looks, sounds, and feels so wrong.

Now, let's get into the way I, as someone who wears scarves, have been treated by many exclusive shaitel wearers. Like I said, I keep my opinions to myself because I have many friendships that I value, and my friends are entitled to do as they do, especially since shaitel wearing is so prevalent in the Jewish world.
I have had people call my very neatly wrapped, sometimes expensive scarf a shmatta to. my. face. I saw someone refer to tichels as "ugly shmatas" upthread. To those who speak this way: your attitude is outrageous! You're insulted about the way people talk about lace shaitels? What about the hurtful, mean, alst-halacha way you speak to and about us non-shaitel wearers? Unprovoked! It's not like I said to someone "wow, your shaitel is so natural, why do you even wear it?" And she responded "better than your ugly shmatta!"
No, just insults thrown around. I'm so sick of it! Where is the tolerance BOTH ways? Where's the ahavas Yisroel?
This whole thread is happening during the 3 weeks and we have insults being thrown back and forth! Enough!

amother

Darkblue

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 8:35 am

amother [ Daphne ] wrote:

My biggest issue with shaitels is that it is the only mitzvah that people try to fulfill by pretending they're not fulfilling it.
For those that have quoted Rav Moshe Z"tzl, my understanding of his psak was that "even if a man can't tell, women can" which I've personally never understood. But even so, the shaitels during his time were VERY different, and nowadays, I can tell someone's hair is covered maybe half the time.
If you walk into a room full of frum women, and can't at a glance discern who is married and who isn't, that feels hugely problematic.
Nowadays, telling someone "omg, I couldn't even tell it was a shaitel!" Is like, the height of a compliment you can give.
The ads for shaitels, the culture around them, the MONEY! It rubs me the wrong way, and it all looks, sounds, and feels so wrong.

I suppose then you are not a fan of pareve meat with cheese or fleishig lasagna with soy cheese.
Or gebroks pesachdik rolls or pesach cookies cakes etc.
Or sheer stockings.
How far does this go?

amother

Daphne

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 8:52 am

amother [ Darkblue ] wrote:

I suppose then you are not a fan of pareve meat with cheese or fleishig lasagna with soy cheese.
Or gebroks pesachdik rolls or pesach cookies cakes etc.
Or sheer stockings.
How far does this go?

Sorry but eating cheese and a fake burger or vice versa isn't a mitzvah. And no, I actually don't eat fake cheeseburgers. More of a preference that I'd rather have a real burger, but whatever.
Stockings are also a machlokes whether you even need to cover your legs so 🤷🏻‍♀️ to that too.
Do men wear toupees over their kippas because they're embarrassed to stick out in public? Do we hide our menorahs, or camouflage the outside of our succah?
My point still stands.

[Thread locked, the sheitel argument has run it's course at this point - mod]