Setting boundaries with a needy friend

amother

Tue, Jul 19 2022, 10:10 pm

Okay so I am not assertive enough. I have a friend who asks for favors at the last minute and will tell me that she rearranged her schedule because she was counting on me to help her. I feel taken advantaged of, but other people also help her out and just set the rules. If I had a different personality then she wouldn't try to pull shtick with me.

My question is, should I just give up doing her favors or keep trying to set boundaries?

amother

Forsythia

Tue, Jul 19 2022, 10:44 pm

I think then it is good for you to grow and be able to set boundaries. When it doesn't work for you or you don't want to do it, stand by your no even if she guilts you. Be blunt back at her. Say you never were asked, and sorry but no, it doesnt work. You will be better for having gained the skill. On the other hand, saying no more favors has no upside, it can put a stumbling block in middle of whatever the friendship is worth, and you would not be acting in a healthy manner either. Sometimes we want to be able to help out.

WhatFor

Tue, Jul 19 2022, 10:52 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

It might be better to say something before the next time. "Hi Chani, Last time you needed my help with xyz, you told me that you rearranged your schedule and were counting on me to help you. However, you never checked with me in advance to see if I was available and I felt like my needs were not considered. Going forward I'm not going to be able to drop everything to help you, even if you rearranged your whole schedule because you thought you could rely on me. If you want me to help you with something, you need to check with me a few days in advance and I'll see if I can help."

That way next time she tries to say something manipulative like she was counting on you, you can say that you warned her not to count on you for last minute things, she knew not to count on you, and you're not available.

FreshGrandma

Tue, Jul 19 2022, 10:59 pm

WhatFor wrote:

That's a very good idea.

I was going to propose to go over polite ways of saying "no" in your head, so that you can set boundaries, but you don't feel you are impolite.

amother

Denim

Tue, Jul 19 2022, 11:05 pm

Learn to say, "I'm sorry, maybe if I would have known in advance I would have been able to help you."

"I'm so sorry you rearranged things for this, I wish you would have checked with me first. It's not going to work for me today."

"As you know I'm usually happy to help you, but my schedule for today was already worked out."

"I apologize, but I'm not able to make it work for today. If you'd like, I may be able to help you at 4:00 tomorrow."

"I'm sorry, that time really doesn't work for me. I may be able to make some time for it next Monday if that is helpful."

For you it is a VERY good thing: First of all you get the mitzvah of helping another Jew, and just as importantly, helping yourself to become more assertive and set boundaries that work for you so you don't stop doing favors altogether.

amother

IndianRed

Wed, Jul 20 2022, 5:00 am

Good ideas and for your own sake you must learn how to do this. It gets easier each time you do and you will feel much better.
For most people it helps to decide in advance that the next time they are asked they will say "no".
In this type of relationship with these dynamics this exercise stops the moment of vulnerability and the emotional cascade when you are deciding if you can or not and how and so on and the other person pushes or waits for your answer.
Prepare a sentence in your head and understand it does not matter what you are being asked. The goal is to be able to say no and set a limit letting the other person know you can say no and are not always available.
"oh I am so sorry! I can't. Actually I am in a rush at the moment and I have to go now." like maybe you have an incoming call, appointment to rush to , have to go to the bathroom, someone rang your doorbell...etc. the point is to make it clear to you and the other person that you can take the initiative of ending the call, you can set a limit, you are not passive, the other person is not dictating the agenda and your time, and you are not always available. That their needs to not always come before yours even if they are needier. It is a metacommunication.
Keep your goal clear and in mind. It is about strengthening your boundary setting assertion muscle.
Some people will do this or something similar three times in a row before allowing themselves to even listen to someone's ask/request.
And yes it can be a good idea to put in that had you known in advance perhaps you also could've arranged or rearranged your schedule to do this favor/accomodate. Only if you want to add this in and feels it helps you.
You can still be a kind compassionate friend. You are doing both of you a favor because otherwise you will feel resentful and burnt out and eventually say or do something to end the friendship or otherwise hurt the other person more chas v shalom.
Can also help to acknowledge that Hashem Is In Charge, it is not all on you, she will find another way if you are not able to do something or otherwise unavailable.
Hugs and hatzlocha

imasinger

Wed, Jul 20 2022, 5:12 am

Great advice here already.

I'll just add one more piece. You can be sympathetic when you say no. Imagine if you truly had something you couldn't possibly rearrange -- someone in the hospital, cv"s, or the like. No means no, but you can still understand.

"Oh, I'm sorry I can't help you out, yes, I see how you rearranged your schedule thinking that I could do it, how frustrating for you, I'm very sorry I can't! You must feel absolutely stuck now, that's such a hard position to be in! No, there's no way I can, but I really feel for you, let me know what happens!"

Chayalle

Wed, Jul 20 2022, 5:37 am

My Rav says that when you set boundaries, you are able to do MORE Chessed, not less (because you don't get burnt out, and you don't feel resentful....). Setting boundaries is the way to go OP.

Stand in front of your mirror and practice saying "I'm wish I could do this for you but I'm sorry, it doesn't work for me". Say this while you picture yourself hearing how she rearranged your schedule (if you dare, you can add "It would be a good idea to ask me if this works for me BEFORE you rearrange your schedule - I'm sorry you did that but it doesn't work for me, and I wasn't involved in this decision...." but this is not necessary, it's not your problem that she rearranged YOUR schedule for you without asking). Practice, practice, and then carry out setting this boundary.

I also find it helpful in some situations to decide in advance what I'm going to do, and what I'm not going to do, and then I carry it out. This is advice I give my daughters as well.

One of my DD's has a friend who is SN and needs alot of her time. My daughter likes her and likes spending time with her, but it was getting out of hand - DD has other obligations and NEEDS as well (even though she's BH healthy). So she worked out how often she will spend time with this friend, and she sticks to that. The other times she says so sorry I can't come, wish I could, etc....and she has found that the time she spends with this friend now is a pleasure and resentment-free, because of the boundary she has set and sticks to.

FreshGrandma

Wed, Jul 20 2022, 7:03 am

Chayalle wrote:

Yes, that's very good advice!

It's also the case for adults in the community who have special needs or mental health issues: if only one family is ready to invite them, it is very hard. But if a few families can share the task, once a month, or every other week, then it is managable and there are no resentments.

And I second Indianred's point of view that they probably will find someone else.

amother

Geranium

Wed, Jul 20 2022, 7:05 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

"Rearranging your schedule without checking with me first was a mistake. Please check with me first in the future. I won't be able to help you today."

amother

Diamond

Wed, Jul 20 2022, 7:26 am

Maybe do some of the CODA program. To be honest it's great but be careful there is כפירה/Christianity involved. Also some interesting characters.
I'd say watch a video how to be assertive.
My friend would also call me at 2 am till 4 am because her husband worked at night. Then one day I saw she can use a hug. I hugged her and she made me feel physically uncomfortable. The next day she told me she's bi so I said to myself she's going bye bye out of my life.
I didn't cut her out completely but I did lessen my communication with her. I am a single woman and I don't feel safe physically around her.
I spoke to another friend that I don't really talk to Mrs. bi and she's like neither do I! She said she also touched her inappropriately.

amother

Maple

Wed, Jul 20 2022, 7:58 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I had this with someone. She would ask me to pick up her kids from school because she was stuck in traffic, ask me to go to her house to turn off her oven, or better yet, check on the food cooking… the first time I said no to her, I felt so horrible after but I think she got the message after that.

amother

Mon, Jul 25 2022, 9:56 pm

Thanks to all of you for responding. I'm sorry to say, but I disappointed all of you.

This past Friday, she asked to come Sunday. I told her that Sunday doesn't work for me. She said that's the only day her dh can drive her, so I said, come at 5:00 pm. She agreed right away.

Sunday, I get a call from her 11:30 am, she wants to come now. She is expecting visitors so 5:00 pm doesn't work for her. I said, sorry, but no. She suggests 2:15 pm, I said okay.

So I'm getting ready for her when she calls me at 2:00 pm. She asks me, "What's better for you, 2:30 pm or 3:00 pm?" Without giving me any chance to answer, she says "I'll come between 2:30 and 3:00" and promptly hangs up the phone. This is after I rearranged my schedule to accommodate her at the new time of 2:15 pm.

Since I was ready for her, I was hoping she would come at 2:30 pm. Nope. She shows up at 3:00 pm. To make matters worse, when I told her later that I need to make supper now and her time is up (I made this clear), she decided to hang around an additional ten minutes.

I couldn't take it anymore. I found out that she has done this to other people and they blocked her number, so I ended up blocking her number as well. Thanks for all the tips and I'm sorry that I let you down.

watergirl

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 9:57 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

You apologized to a group of strangers twice in this post. You in no way need to apologize, as you did nothing to hurt, disappoint, or upset anyone here! But I am getting the feeling from this, and from how you do not like to say no to this one friend, that you are someone who really wants to make people happy and you do not often say no in general. This is something for you to work on if it's true.

You did GREAT! You told her no! And although it did not work the first time, you tried! You are learning to stretch your "no muscles".

Next time, try saying no, today does not work for me at all. And let her push and let her get annoyed or upset. Life will go on and she will get over it. You are going to have a yucky feeling from saying no, but that too is something that will pass. I promise.