Toxic neighborhood friends

amother

Chicory

Wed, Jul 27 2022, 10:58 pm

amother [ Lime ] wrote:

Sometimes there are no other friends and the only option is to move.

That's an incredibly difficult place to be. But you don't want to teach your preteen to pursue unhealthy friendships. If these girls are disrespecting her and they don't have adults in their lives who are ready to help them mature through this, your daughter is gaining much more by not trying to be friends with them. The last thing you want is a teenager who pursues unhealthy relationships because of the precedent that you're setting now when she's 12.

FreshGrandma

Wed, Jul 27 2022, 11:07 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

My 12 year old is being shunned by the 2 neighbors closest to her in age. One of them is very toxic and manipulative and convinced the other girl not to be my daughter's friend anymore. I'm at my wits end. The parents play the "were not mixing into our kids fights. Let them fight it out. Blablabla." Of course. Their kids aren't getting hurt here. I feel like I'm ready to kick some butt. Help.

P.s. she does have some other friends here. But these are closest to our house and they're going out of their way to ignore her and make her feel like dirt.

I agree with "don't mix into kids fights, let them figure it out", other than comforting your daughter when she needs it and maybe give her tips on how to handle the situation. A manipulative person is not desirable as a friend, and if another friend is temporarily manipulated, your daughter has to live with it, because nobody can force anybody to be friends or to spend time with her.

You can't protect your children from everything. They will have to go through heartbreak in their lives. Have an open ear and just brace yourself for having to listen and comfort her without intervening at the friend's level.

familyfirst

Thu, Jul 28 2022, 12:49 am

Op-
My heart goes out to you.
Awful to watch children get hurt while the other child gets away with it.

We live in an area where there are no friends living nearby. Invite friends from school to spend shabbos with you, buy special book or treats to make shabbos special, go for walks, go for a Motzei shabbos ice cream stop-

In other words- find happiness within. Don’t depend on this outside friendship.
And shame shame shame on the mother. She should be making her kid apologize. Just awful.

amother

Navyblue

Thu, Jul 28 2022, 1:07 am

Except for a few details, we have the same situation. Except my kid is "the one who was dragged by the toxic friend" to stop defaulting to it always being this group that includes the "rejected friend" no matter what. My heart goes out to you and your daughter, as well as to the ones in my story. But right now we're only hearing one perspective, and I'm happy to share my experience even though it's prob not your situation. Still it's food for thought.

With my daughter, this "newly excluded" girl is actually very very difficult and has controlled almost everything they do whether it's the games they play or places they walk to or which other kids they can invite. It's always been subtle yet bottom line is it's her way or the highway.

And her parents are blind to the dynamics and I'm sure are so hurt and confused but they are doing the meddling thing that is so harmful because it's teaching their kid that there's nothing to learn from the experience other than "we are just victims here and everyone else is awful and toxic and no we are not going to pause for a minute to question whether our kid can maybe use some professional help in the social and other mental areas."

And if they were to ask me to do something about it I'd prob answer similarly that I would never go and force my kid to be friends with someone that actually is hurting her. The mom would totally be posting what you posted here. While I hate the awkwardness of it I'm actually really happy to see my daughter not being a doormat and letting herself have some fun with friends for once.

Obviously I'm against any of the bullying you're talking about like laughing and running. I just keep thinking that the mom in my story would also perceive some of what my daughter and her friends are doing as being toxic simply because they are not inviting her to play - aka take over the show - every single time they get together.

Sorry for such a long long post. I just am coming at this from the perspective of a mom who spent HER entire childhood being nice to every single "outcast" at the expense of her own sanity because her parents never taught her that boundaries are a thing.

Just please even though none of this specifically applies to you take advantage of the moment to actually try to reflect honestly about the possibility of this not just being evil toxic friends.

amother

Thistle

Thu, Jul 28 2022, 3:54 am

amother [ Topaz ] wrote:

Their attitudes explain why their children are that way. While I can't control my kid I can certainly parent her. I can explain that it's not ok to leave someone out or leave her without friends. You need to teach kindness from very young ages. In my experiences there has always been a correlation between parenting and bullies. If at all possible I would move, this is very damaging and can have long term effects on her.

I really wonder if this is true. My dd is only 6, but she and another friend mostly stopped playing with a third girl this year. When in my house, this child is incredibly bossy to my dd (and annoying with endless requests to me). It always left dd feeling so stressed, even after the girl left. And in gan she threatened to hit my dd if dd didn't copy her picture! So no, I do not like this child and do not want her to be friends with my dd. So she called and asked to come and dd or I said no many times. Then she stopped asking. This was a friendship that wasn't good for dd. There are plenty of other kids around here, but even if there weren't...what if the "friend" is not good for your dd? You need to encourage that "friendship"? (The mom probably doesn't realize this, and thinks her dd is perfect and my kid's cruel.) I do try to make sure dd and her friend don't speak badly about the girl or make fun of her or hurt her purposefully. She tries to be honest but not say things that will make her feel bad.

amother

Lime

Thu, Jul 28 2022, 6:20 am

amother [ Chicory ] wrote:

Nope. My dd did not pursue the friendships. But it's been a few years, and moving is not practical But we may decide to move anyways.

Amother navy blue, I'm not the op, but regarding my situation my dd wasn't bossy. She was barely given a chance and kept getting snobbed out before they had a chance to play together. I think you should be direct to the mother and tell her that her dd was being bossy. That way they don't think it's because they’re not cool enough not frum enough or whatever and maybe they can correct the problems her dd is having.

Chayalle

Thu, Jul 28 2022, 8:37 am

amother [ Black ] wrote:

I feel you OP, we have the same situation and it hurts so much. And when I finally did casually mention it to the mean girl's mother, she made it seem like I'm so petty and beneath her for bringing it up. The worst is when they walk down the block and giggle when approaching my house and then duck and run past it but in a very exaggerated and mocking way. Of course the mean girl is head of GO and dance and and and.... You know what I think? I think the school shouldn't reward someone who got to the top by putting down everyone else, constantly belittling them and making them scared to doublecross them. This summer they're all three counselors at the same camp and DD found the third girl crying in the bathroom because she has to do all the actual work but she still wouldn't say anything because at least she gets to be friends with the mean girl and she's scared of retaliation. And yes, it's spreading to the younger siblings. Why, oh why did Hashem hand me this nisayon that almost all my children have a child from this family to deal with in their grade? Sad

I told DH I hope the mother rots in he**, I just hate her so much.

Just want to comment on this post. Being head of GO, etc...in school is not a Good Middos Award. It's a post given to someone who can handle the pressure (and sometimes the mean girl is the one who can handle it.) I've seen this time and time again. My DD told me that the GO heads in her grade were the biggest bullies. But trust me DD did not want the job.

I was once shmoozing with a girl in my neighborhood who B'H is amazing but was going thru a rough time back then. She told me in her (frum BY) high school, the teachers just don't get it - they seem to like and reward girls who sweet-face them, and they don't see how mean those girls are to their peers.

I told her the Gemarrah discusses just this - this world is an Olam Hafuch. If we would get a glimpse into how they view people in this world in the world of truth, we would see that those people who are venerated down here are not thought of as much....and some simple pious people whom nobody recognizes here are considered truly awesome by Hashem. This is an Olam HaSheker. It's how the world was set up.

We have to teach our kids to be strong and resilient and know their own self-worth, even when there are all these not-so-nice kids (who then become grownups...) around them. and to know that what really counts is what we are building up to in the world to come (and not those cutesy little titles, like being head of this or that....)

creditcards

Fri, Jul 29 2022, 9:54 am

FreshGrandma wrote:

I can't understand how people can agree with this concept of not mixing in when kids fight. This causes so much damage to kids. Kids need help solving their fights. They can't do it on their own. When you don't help them their fights just escalate and resentment builds up and then it's too late to fix years of resentment. I always mixed in to my kids fights, weather it's mine only or with their friends. I talk to them the same as I would educate my own. I explain to them what needs to be explained in a nice way just as I would with my own. I help them make compromises, sympathize, and sometimes need to tell them that their behavior is not acceptable. I usually don't involve their mothers. Never had good experience with that. I just call over the kid and talk nicely to him/her.

Coming from someone who suffered a lot from this approach as a kid.

Last edited by creditcards on Fri, Jul 29 2022, 10:12 am; edited 2 times in total

amother

Burntblack

Fri, Jul 29 2022, 10:02 am

A child needs guidance. Sometimes “let them figure it out” approach is harmful. Adult wisdom, experience and parenting is for a reason. I had to tell my DD not to try and be friends with the mean, vindictive, jealous girl in the neighborhood. She just had to preserve and protect herself. They started out as friends when they were younger but as the years went by and pre-adolescence kicked in, the other girl turned into quite the bully. It was confusing and hurtful for my daughter. I couldn’t let that continue. As the saying goes, With friends like that, who needs enemies?

Simple1

Fri, Jul 29 2022, 2:24 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Parents have an obligation to stop their kids from hurting others. That's not mixing in. That's basic parenting and menchifying (it's a word now) their kids.

Of course. I was talking about the victim's side.

Come to think of it, a friend of mine told me an incident where she spoke up when her son was excluded, and it did help. I think ideal would be speak up once, feel it out, and go from there if you think it will be helpful. If not, let it go.

mha3484

Fri, Jul 29 2022, 2:35 pm

My opinion is probably unpopular but so be it. I have an 11 year old son who does not have the easiest time socially. The one kid that is especially nasty to him has real real issues himself and I don't think the parents are ignoring it but could they do more very likely. But based on different aspects to the story I support my son while also working on myself to see that this kid is in a lot of pain for reasons I am not putting in public. I have no ill will towards the kid or his parents.

But there are kids that are not mean to him but not eager to socialize with him and I have come to accept in many ways my son is complicit in this. I think often times it takes two to tango. He gets in his own way so instead of making it about the parents and the other kids, I took the track to work with my kid on how to act in a way that attracts the kind of friend you want. Slowly its working. Baruch hashem.