Is this too many chores for a 14 year old?

naturalmom5

Tue, Aug 09 2022, 12:37 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Is this too many chores for a 14 year old?

During the school year, he needs to clean up the floor of his room once a week so that it can be vacuumed (by me or by our cleaning lady). He also needs to put away 30 things in the playroom, most of which are not his, but there are definitely some things that are, also once a week.

He needs to put away his laundry after I fold it and put it on his bed. This might be 1-2 times a week, depending on when I get around to folding it. On Friday, he has four things to do: to empty his knapsack and put it away, put away any laundry I folded on Friday, take anything that is his out of a pile of stuff I cleaned up while straightening up the house before Shabbos, and set up my candles. (Each of my kids has one "extra" job, and this is his. It takes him about thirty seconds to do -- just remove the old tin holders, and put in new ones with candles in them.)

On Shabbos we have a rotation of who sets and clears the table. He sets the table for one meal, and helps my husband or I (or both) clear after another meal. In reality, that means one of us clears the table and he makes two visits to the kitchen holding whatever he grabbed.

Those are his only "chores" during the school year. When I list them out, it looks like a lot. But it feels like it's just touching the surface of what I want chores to address, which is 1) feeling like he has a responsibility towards the house, and it's not just Mommy's job to do all of the things that need to be done, and 2) learning how to do the things around the house that I want him to know how to do when he's living independently/married/whatever.

During the school year, things are busy. He actually doesn't really have homework (long story, that), but he does need time to decompress, and some of his siblings do have a lot of homework, so I stick to the above chores during the school year. But during the summertime, I have one additional twice-weekly chore rotation that I add on. The kids rotate between a laundry-related chore, a washing-dishes-related chore, a cleaning/organizing chore, and setting/clearing the table for dinner.

Laundry is not more than folding one load of laundry. Sometimes it's putting in a new load and switching another load to the dryer.

Dishes means emptying the dishwasher, or washing a not-full sink of dishes (as in, I do most of the dishes and they're usually washing whatever is left over -- so one meal's worth or less, and we generally use plasticware, so it's really just serving dishes and serving silverware).

A cleaning chore might be taking all the couch cushions off of two couches and vacuuming under them and replacing them. Or pulling a bunch of boxes off of a shelf, wiping under them, and replacing the boxes. I try to cater to what that specific child will be interested in -- some like organizing things, some don't but prefer to vacuum.

Each of these jobs happens twice a week. My husband thinks it's unfair and that's why my 14 year old is digging his heels in. I think I should have started the summer jobs consistently earlier (I did, three years ago, but the last two years I was lazy and didn't keep it up). After all, my 6 year old has no problem doing these! My other kids kvetched the first week of the summer and then got into the habit, realized that none of these chores take more than 15-20 minutes (and often more like 10 or less), and stopped giving me a hard time about. My 14 year old, on the other hand, is so resentful about it.

My husband hates the Friday jobs too. He rolls his eyes about the setting/cleaning up on Shabbos jobs. He didn't grow up with these, and he thinks they're not necessary and just setting us up for power struggles with our kids. He quietly watches while I enforce these, but I know he doesn't approve. Which is hard, since we're rarely on different pages when it comes to parenting stuff.

Am I really giving them (or rather, specifically my 14 year old) too much work? Keep in mind that he is home just hanging out for several hours in the afternoon/evening time, so it's not like he's trying to squeeze these in between homework or learning time or even friend-time or anything. He's just vegging.

I think he has too little unless he is doing science projects or computer projects or woodworking
Something that will help him with parnosa in a few short years

amother

Lightcyan

Tue, Aug 09 2022, 12:40 am

dankbar wrote:

It's not a lot of work but he is 14 not 4. Seems like you are micromanaging and treating him like a kid. Like ordering him, now pick up 30 things, now put away your laundry. You are infantilizing him & that's why he is resentful. He wants to be independent & that how the power struggles start. It's his room, tell him you are not cleaning it. He is responsible to keep his room in order if not it's on him. Don't look back. He's not a little kid. It's his room, if he doesn't clean he gets to live in the mess. Don't say you must take off the wine glasses now. Just walk out of the room and tell him when I wake up I expect the dining room to be clean. Then let him do it his way.

Also let the kids figure out among themselves who does what, you don't give chores or care how it gets done, the main thing is the dining room has to get clean

I agree fully. My dd 14 would respond the same way if I was so specific with her. She likes dignity and control. And to be treated distinctly older than her much younger siblings.

So I’d say please pick a cake recipe and make it for shabbos Tysm end of conversation. Or please serve the soup. She gets to decide if to use plastic or China. If to bring the soup to the table or to ladle it out in the kitchen etc.

Her room is her space to keep neat and of course she will put away her laundry. It goes without saying. She has learned the hard way by leaving laundry all over the place and not emptying her garbage can etc that very quickly a room can get gross.

Treat a 14 how you would like your manager at work to talk to you. Dignity goes a long way.

amother

Dandelion

Tue, Aug 09 2022, 1:21 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Nah, dh does this stuff if necessary. He works much longer hours than I do, so they're all typically my job, but if I'm under the weather, or pregnant, or postpartum, he takes over these chores until I'm up to it again. Not because I ask him to, but because we really are equal partners. And I have cleaning help.

Maybe that's why dh thinks they're not important. When he was a kid, he didn't have chores, and he's a great husband. So my kids will be fine too. The thing is, this kid specifically needs it, in my opinion. He feels no responsibility towards the household, gets resentful when asked to do anything around the house, and digs in his heels whenever someone tries to teach him to do anything. My husband was a model child who was always looking to help people, including his parents. There's really no comparison. I feel like dh just doesn't see that.

The chores are not to help me -- especially the summer ones. They're really to make my kids into responsible human beings who have the skills it takes to be responsible adults one day.

This is my DH exactly. He grew up with only 1 sibling and both his parents came from large families where they had to do a lot, so since there wasn't as much to do, they just didn't make their kids do anything.
Now, yes, I concede that my DH knew how to step up to the plate and he's really a wonderful husband and he knows how to cook and clean and do laundry and he totally picks up the slack when I'm sick or pregnant or away.
But, I believe that children need to contribute to the household and learn basic life skills when they're young. It's a big point of contention between us.
He firmly believes that the kids will rise to the occasion when required.

I'm totally on your side and your list of chores is not too much at all. Almost every one takes less than a minute.
Switching laundry from the washer to the dryer shouldn't even be counted IMO.
Putting away his own laundry - it's embarrassing if a teenager doesn't do that.
I don't really count personal tasks as chores; that should be a given.
But setting the table, emptying the dishwasher, straightening up the playroom and similar are not unreasonable.
I don't ask my kids to mop or scrub toilets or anything like that.

imaima

Tue, Aug 09 2022, 1:35 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Putting away 30 things is for toddlers. You need to reframe it for a teenager.
He can vacuum his floor all by himself and not just prepare it for the cleaner.

His laundry, his stuff that you accumulated, his knapsack are not chores.
Another issue is that chores should be logical and not random „just so they do something“.

Instead of having a „plan“ I feel like there should be a natural flow. Like, my teens have one easy salad each that they prepare for the meal. I cook the rest. It is understood that I am not standing up from shabbes table much anymore. They clear up and bring new food by themselves, because mommy is tired.

Sometimes one of the teens says they are tired too, okay it’s valid or a bit of a power struggle which is fine. I can actually do it myself. We role model everything including knowing own limits.

My objective is not to have enough jobs to delegate to my little slaves but to develop a sense of paying attention to what’s needed. I don’t want my kids to think that if it’s not their turn, then they should remain seated. Or, if it is their turn, then they cannot say no even if they are tired or sick.

amother

Mistyrose

Tue, Aug 09 2022, 1:40 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Sounds like a big burden. I do believe in giving chores and teaching responsibility, but not in weighing kids down with too much and not letting them enjoy their childhoods enough.

amother

Orchid

Tue, Aug 09 2022, 1:52 am

Sounds ok to me too.
We recently started a rotation of daily jobs. Kids between 6 and 15 do one thing each day, boys and girls. Each thing probably takes 5 minutes, but it helps a lot and they see they are contributing.
Things like wipe table down after dinner, sweep, put away clean dishes, take out trash…

They also put away their clean laundry, (6 yr old still gets help with that) and help for shabbos.
Fridays I’ve found what works for us is I write a list of a bunch of things that need to be done, and each kid needs to choose 2 or 3 (plus put away their school stuff and get themselves ready for shabbos). Things like set up the candles, fill up the urn, put the tablecloth on, fridge lights, sweep etc nothing too major. But we are all working together to get ready for shabbos. They see my husband and I working along side them.
Letting them choose works better for us than assigning jobs, one kid especially needs the option to decide for themselves.
(It also gets them moving and not leaving it to the last minute, if they wait to long the ‘good’ jobs get taken 😆)

Different personalities respond differently, one kid grumbles the whole time but gets things done and whatever they choose is done properly. One kid tries to get out of it each week and another just goes around doing what needs to be done. But they know their friends all do similar.

cheeseaddict

Tue, Aug 09 2022, 2:11 am

I think the grumbling is just due to the age - teens will make a fuss about anything they don't want to do, and if you asked them to do it, it's automatically something they don't want to do.

I don't think asking someone for 10 minutes of work every other day is too much at all. Especially at this age.
I do agree that the picking up 30 things is not age-appropriate and you should consider dropping it or exchanging it for something else. In our house we do sweeping everything into the corner as a job and then I sort it into piles and the younger kids help put it all away. Could that work for you? That way he spends two to three minutes sweeping and he is done, while you and the younger kids put things away.

Also, we call friday jobs "shabbos jobs", and they are not chores but hachana leshabbos, which is a mitzva for everyone. Those are usually the bigger weekly jobs like cleaning their rooms (which I am not particular about the rest of the week unless they want to invite a friend), washing the porch, cleaning the bathroom (I do the toilet, and they put away the laundry not in the hamper, any tissues and pocket detritus they left on the counters and then they get to spray soapy water all over the floor and walls and mop). Younger kids put away shoes, open tissues, match socks, wipe down the outside of fridge and lower cabinets in the kitchen...
And my house is not even so clean!

amother

Tue, Aug 09 2022, 11:24 am

Thank you everyone for your responses!

So it seems like while most people think that this is not a lot at all, there were a few outliers. Those who think this is too much -- Do you have teenage boys? If so, what do you have them do? (And was it clear that the summer jobs are rotating, meaning that they only do one job, although they do it twice a week?)

(For the record, I don't call them chores. They're called "Erev Shabbos Jobs," "Summer Chessed," and "Tuesday Jobs." But I figured most imamothers would recognize the word "chores" better. I also undertsand why people didn't like that I included putting away his laundry in this list, but my husband does include it because it's something else that my son feels kind of resentful about. With my other kids, I just tell them when I'm finished doing laundry "The laundry is done, can you put it away?" and they put away their piles. But it always caused major issues with this son, so I put it on his bed and he knows it's supposed to get put away before he goes to sleep -- this from several years ago when I started doing it to avoid the power struggle of me asking him to put it away and him avoiding doing so. We haven't really discussed it since, so it's more an expectation than a "chore" at this point...but it does get put away when I put the pile on his bed, so I'm not complaining.)

But the responses I'm most interested in are the ones where they said that these are not age-appropriate. The thing is, he's the kind of kid if that if I give him any kind of choice at all, he grumbles and says he doesn't know and he doesn't want to do anything and it's all stupid. Which is why we default to him doing what the rest of the family does -- the rotation, etc. The "thirty things in the playroom" rule was from back when we used to clean up the playroom as a family before the cleaning lady came, and plenty of the stuff around was his at that age, but he would waste time and the rest of us would clean and my other kids were feeling resentful about it. So I made it into "30 things" so that at least he knew he had to contribute and couldn't just pretend to be cleaning up but really just be spacing out while everyone else did the work. I haven't changed it because I honestly don't know how. If I said "So I know that most of the stuff in the playroom isn't yours at this point, would you like to change to a different job?" I can 100% guarantee that not only would he not choose a different job, even if I give him a few ideas, he would also then start giving me a hard time about doing the playroom as well. That's his personality. So I'm feeling kind of stuck.

For example, one of our rotated jobs is "clean or organize something." I give my younger daughter, and sometimes my younger son, a specific job. For my older two, I ask them if they have any ideas of something they'd prefer to do -- if not, I'll figure something out that would be helpful. The other son I do this with has sometimes come up with his own ideas or sometimes asked me for my ideas, and he chooses one. This son just says he wants to do "nothing." I give him a few ideas and he says "none of them." The only way to get him to do anything is to give him something specific.

Also, at times when it's been hard for me (right now I'm in the last trimester of pregnancy, for example) to do things, my other kids jump up and offer to help. This son doesn't. And if I'm really desperate and ask him for help, and it's obvious I need it (like when I'm really feeling sick and lying on the couch and I ask him to bring perishable groceries in from the car), he acts so resentful about it. My other kids will literally see me start to pick something up these days and say "Mommy, here, let me carry it for you." He just doesn't. And I try very hard not to ask him for things because I don't want him to be resentful.

I guess this is the bigger picture. Because of this, my husband sees me giving him any chores as just asking for a power struggle. I understand what he's saying, but this is an area where I really think he needs to break out of his preconceived notion of "This is Mommy's job, why should I have to do it?" I've tried telling him that the point is that we all work together, as a family, to keep the house running. He still feels that it's my job.

For the record, my husband does a ton around the house. He's only home for a limited amount of time at night. During that time, he feeds my toddler dinner, gives the younger ones baths, puts them to sleep (I sometimes help with this), does homework or learns with the older ones...and then he's off to maariv and night seder. So my 14 year old definitely sees him pitching in. While my husband is doing those things, I'm usually straightening up the kitchen, washing dishes, etc. So no, he doesn't usually do those things. If I don't have the energy or am not feeling well, I leave the stuff in the sink and my husband sees them when he comes back from night seder and does them then. My teens are asleep by then, or at least in their rooms, but I've thanked my husband in front of them or said things like "Whoah, I didn't even realize Tatty did all the dishes last night! I had no energy to do them, and I just fell into bed last night. He's the best."

I don't know. I'm feeling sort of hopeless here. I know that grumbling is normal, but it really does cause drama. He procrastinates and I don't let him get away with it. I keep on thinking he'll get into the habit at some point and I won't have to keep on fighting with him, but it's almost the end of the summer and I feel like we're no better off than we were at the beginning...

Sorry for the long post. Just wanted to clear up some things. It's really helpful to hear other people's perspectives.

amother

Tue, Aug 09 2022, 1:49 pm

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

I don't think it's too many chores but maybe there are chores he'd rather do. Like instead of cleaning the playroom he might prefer to vacuum the living room and bedrooms. Or he'd prefer to make supper twice a week.

I don't have a teen yet but I do want (and tried but my kids were still too young) to have, at some point, each teen plan and prepare one supper a week. I think it's important that they learn how to plan meals and cook.

So he wouldn't. He'd prefer to do nothing.

He does cook things periodically when he feels like it -- for himself. He'll make himself a fully loaded omelet for breakfast, or whatever, and he can follow a recipe and knows his way around the kitchen. But if I say to him today, "Would you like to grill some burgers tomorrow afternoon so we can have them for dinner?" He'll say yes. And then the next day will say he's not in the mood and doesn't want to. And if I try to push, it turns into a whole power struggle...and it either means we don't have burgers for dinner or I make them myself. And yes, I've tried to explain how that puts me in a bind, and if he says he'll do something he needs to follow through or he's disappointing the rest of the family...He gets all upset and says something teenager-y like "Ugh, you just don't get it" and marches away.

So I don't ask him to cook anything anymore, unless it's BEFORE I would normally do it myself. And like clockwork, it becomes a power struggle when it's time for him to follow through.

Other things like vacuuming or putting away groceries or whatever -- he'll say no, he doesn't want to do any of them. It's like he feels he's a slave that I have the expectation that he'll do ANYthing around the house. And yes, I read that other thread and that's the main reason I'm concerned...I don't want him to turn into a husband who feels this way about his wife. But I just have no idea how to help him...if he doesn't want to be helped.

amother

Jade

Tue, Aug 09 2022, 3:18 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So then continue doing what you are doing and making sure he knows he has to pitch in.

But also think about what his future wife will want him to do. If she will want him to vacuum then he needs to start doing that, so that the resistance is with you and not her. If she would want him to wash dishes every night, then he can wash a sinkful once a day or twice a week or whatever. He will kvetch but better to you than to her, and he will get used to doing it. Etc.

You can just switch his job and tell him that this is his new job, and give the other job to someone younger. He can say no, and you can say, okay, well this is your job, please do it. You can say no the whole time you are doing it, but you need to do it. Obviously only if you feel the effort involved is worth it.