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What would you tell this girl?
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Aug 10 2022, 12:56 pm
Thanks everyone.
I advised her not to take it and I think she agrees. She feels a sense of loss, because there is a part of her that wants to believe she can do it, like her mother and older sisters.

I kind of agreed with the poster who said that a school that hires a girl like that lacks professionalism. The school in question is an OOT school, where there are not that many options. They told the girl that they considered two other (married) candidates but they chose her over those other women.

I know why they love her. She is incredibly emotionally intelligent, has a lot of chain, makes the girls feel amazing, is reliable and and is just someone you trust. She has that rare combination of traits that inspires confidence.

But I agreed with all of the posters who said that not everyone is suited for every grade and it's not something she needs to feel ashamed of.

Finally, the biggest issue is, that as a single girl, you need to be very confident in yourself before walking into an 8th grade class. Girls that age can be brutal. I don't know what she needs to put herself into that position.
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#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 10 2022, 1:08 pm
Very wise!

Hope the girl finds a job that is her first choice soon!
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 10 2022, 2:27 pm
amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:
This could only occur in a system that doesn’t value professionalism or education.

You know that university professors don't have teaching degrees? Heck, they aren't even required to have any natural affinity for teaching. Only content knowledge.

Someone who has content knowledge, a natural affinity for working with groups of children, and a willingness to learn, has the potential to be a great teacher. A Bachelors couldn't hurt either, but let's be real, nobody is standing in front of a bunch of bored preteens thinking "hmmm, let me remember what the Teaching Triad has to say about this." You have problems with your classroom, you ask Orit who's been a teacher for 20 years, she'll know what to do.

Quote:
Do you really think anyone can teach.

When did we get to the point where the only two options are "anyone can do it" and "you must spend 4 years of your life and $100,000 obtaining a college degree"?

One of my side gigs involves translating legal texts from Hebrew to English. Formal education required? Zero. Can anyone do it? No, maybe 1 in 1,000 people can do it.

There are many, many ways to weed out unsuitable job candidates that don't involve making them undergo years of training at their own expense.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 10 2022, 3:12 pm
She should not take this job, BUT she should also reframe. I know it's hard when you're young and you feel like you need The job already, but there is really nothing wrong with taking more time being an assistant and remedial teacher until the right position opens up.

I think she should be honest with the school that the reason she's declining the offer is because it's outside her skill set. She does not need to share the full extent of her difficulties, but it should be clear that she's not simply leaving them in a desperate position because she only "wants" to teach younger grades. Saying "I have the skills to teach younger grades but not junior high" is a lot more respect-worthy than saying "I know you really need a teacher but I only want to teach this and not that."
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amother
Honeydew


 

Post Wed, Aug 10 2022, 3:13 pm
ora_43 wrote:
When did we get to the point where the only two options are "anyone can do it" and "you must spend 4 years of your life and $100,000 obtaining a college degree"?

One of my side gigs involves translating legal texts from Hebrew to English. Formal education required? Zero. Can anyone do it? No, maybe 1 in 1,000 people can do it.

There are many, many ways to weed out unsuitable job candidates that don't involve making them undergo years of training at their own expense.


Your reasoning and logic are specious.

College professors are hired because of the knowledge of specific subjects. Unless they are teaching remedial students, the students are expected to be able to learn based on lectures, reading materials or lab where applicable. There are some professors who are gifted as lecturers and they tend to be in demand by students but by and large most actual learning in college and grad school is done by the individual student - especially since most good colleges require essay and research as part of the course work.

If you told me that a college professor did not have a PHD and done significant research as part of their CV I would be shocked. In large courses as opposed to seminars there are TA's but these are grad students and aren't there to "teach" college students but to help them understand difficult substantive materials and/or in liberal arts/humanities courses to lead small classes where discussion can take place. But again this is completely different than a second or third grade classroom.

Elementary school teachers must learn how to teach. Teaching reading skills is a specific skill and technique.

And I don't even understand how you correlate a profession with a technical skill. You have language skills which enable you to read and translate Hebrew and perhaps have knowledge of specific legal vocabulary. This doesn't qualify you to actually be a lawyer any more than knowing how to read qualifies a 19 year old to teach reading to elementary school children.

It is very sad that there are posts asking for the "best" - fill in the blank professional and yet people think that the education of young children can be adequately done by an untrained and unskilled 19 year old with a high school education.
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imaima




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 10 2022, 3:52 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thanks everyone.
I advised her not to take it and I think she agrees. She feels a sense of loss, because there is a part of her that wants to believe she can do it, like her mother and older sisters.

I kind of agreed with the poster who said that a school that hires a girl like that lacks professionalism. The school in question is an OOT school, where there are not that many options. They told the girl that they considered two other (married) candidates but they chose her over those other women.

I know why they love her. She is incredibly emotionally intelligent, has a lot of chain, makes the girls feel amazing, is reliable and and is just someone you trust. She has that rare combination of traits that inspires confidence.

But I agreed with all of the posters who said that not everyone is suited for every grade and it's not something she needs to feel ashamed of.

Finally, the biggest issue is, that as a single girl, you need to be very confident in yourself before walking into an 8th grade class. Girls that age can be brutal. I don't know what she needs to put herself into that position.


I don’t get the black and white thinking. Why in the world a sense of loss? She can develop her skills to become an 8 grade teacher, or she can try snd be an elementary school teacher for which she is better equipped. This position is not even what she wanted!
How about a teaching degree? She could work the same job as previous year while actually learning how to teach. That would be brilliant since she will do familiar work.

Also, they might prefer her over others since she is probably cheaper.
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Aug 10 2022, 4:05 pm
imaima wrote:
I don’t get the black and white thinking. Why in the world a sense of loss? She can develop her skills to become an 8 grade teacher, or she can try snd be an elementary school teacher for which she is better equipped. This position is not even what she wanted!
How about a teaching degree? She could work the same job as previous year while actually learning how to teach. That would be brilliant since she will do familiar work.

Also, they might prefer her over others since she is probably cheaper.


You don't understand the sense of loss because you don't know her. You only know what I posted about her.

She was seriously conflicted about this. She was leaning towards saying yes before she spoke to me about it. She wants very badly to be able to read fluently, and have the skills to decipher a Rashi on her own. She wishes she knew random information from Tanach like her sisters and mother.

She was somehow thinking that if she takes this job, it will force her to get the practice she needs to build the skills.

But personally I think it's wishful thinking and certainly a very big risk.

Anyway. She already told the school no. The principal was very disappointed but also very nice about it.
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imaima




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 10 2022, 4:15 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
You don't understand the sense of loss because you don't know her. You only know what I posted about her.

She was seriously conflicted about this. She was leaning towards saying yes before she spoke to me about it. She wants very badly to be able to read fluently, and have the skills to decipher a Rashi on her own. She wishes she knew random information from Tanach like her sisters and mother.

She was somehow thinking that if she takes this job, it will force her to get the practice she needs to build the skills.

But personally I think it's wishful thinking and certainly a very big risk.

Anyway. She already told the school no. The principal was very disappointed but also very nice about it.


Happy for her.
She sounds immature. She should be invested into her students and not in herself.
It is not criticism just an observation. It sounds like she likes herself „on stage“ more than she likes kids.
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amother
Cobalt


 

Post Wed, Aug 10 2022, 4:19 pm
A dif poster mentioned this alrdy but I also think it wld be perfect is for her to go teach in a special Ed school! She probably has the patience needed and you don’t need too much academic knowledge for it and it’s so rewarding!
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amother
NeonYellow


 

Post Wed, Aug 10 2022, 4:25 pm
amother [ Cobalt ] wrote:
A dif poster mentioned this alrdy but I also think it wld be perfect is for her to go teach in a special Ed school! She probably has the patience needed and you don’t need too much academic knowledge for it and it’s so rewarding!

You need very strong skills to teach special education. You also need to read and write well, to keep up with and manage IEPs and case files.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 10 2022, 4:46 pm
amother [ NeonYellow ] wrote:
You need very strong skills to teach special education. You also need to read and write well, to keep up with and manage IEPs and case files.

You need strong skills but not the same type of skills as jr high Navi. In fact many people who have awesome chumash and navi skills don't have what it takes to analyze special needs and reach struggling students.

A lot of people who are amazing with young and/or struggling students get help when it comes time to write reports. a LOT. It's a Thing. Some agencies that provide special ed services actually hire an in-house editor/helper/coordinator/whatever you want to call it to handle that, especially those who work with a lot of bilingual cases because many providers are stronger in the other language but need to write reports in English.

But I don't know if special ed is OP's friend's cup of tea. If general ed classroom teaching pulls her and she is great at it, our typically performing and/or mixed groups of students need excellent teachers just as much as the special ed kids do.
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amother
Amaranthus


 

Post Wed, Aug 10 2022, 4:55 pm
I would advise she skip the 8th grade position. She needs to do something she will feel like she’s good at or it will just give her an overall bad feeling for teaching all together.
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amother
Mayflower


 

Post Thu, Aug 11 2022, 6:53 am
She did the right thing. Has she got a job lined up for the new semester?

Echoing what others have said, it does seem as if special ed would be a good fit for her if that is something she is interested in. It doesn't sound as if the report writing would be a problem, that part is not student facing so she can take her time if she needs to, but you write that she is intelligent and capable so it should not be a problem.

Also, I would like to add that I'm not from the US and am shocked that a 19 year old with one year experience as an assistant could be considered for the 8th grade job! I'm grateful my children are not in such a school!
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 11 2022, 7:28 am
I'm relieved she said no, and agree with you 100% that 8th grade is not the age to teach as one's first job as lead teacher! She'd have had her hands full in a million ways even before she had time to improve her skills.

There are two separate issues -- getting stronger at textual skills, and being a lead teacher. She wisely listened to you and did not take a position where she would have to master both complex skill sets at the same time!

I hope she finds a great job this year, and stays in education. If she wants to improve her comfort and fluency with Rashi, she might consider taking on some kind of chevrusa learning for that.

I also think that it is so important for a young woman of this age to know it's okay to say no if something doesn't feel 100% right, no matter how tempted she is to want the immediate good feelings. It will be important for her in shidduchim.
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amother
NeonYellow


 

Post Thu, Aug 11 2022, 8:01 am
seeker wrote:
You need strong skills but not the same type of skills as jr high Navi. In fact many people who have awesome chumash and navi skills don't have what it takes to analyze special needs and reach struggling students.

A lot of people who are amazing with young and/or struggling students get help when it comes time to write reports. a LOT. It's a Thing. Some agencies that provide special ed services actually hire an in-house editor/helper/coordinator/whatever you want to call it to handle that, especially those who work with a lot of bilingual cases because many providers are stronger in the other language but need to write reports in English.

But I don't know if special ed is OP's friend's cup of tea. If general ed classroom teaching pulls her and she is great at it, our typically performing and/or mixed groups of students need excellent teachers just as much as the special ed kids do.

Op said it's a small oot school so she simply would not have these resources. It's really in NY and NJ that you have these agencies that special Ed people work for, rather than the schools (which only have all that $ for resources bec of government funding). In the average oot school and certainly in the smaller ones, a special Ed teacher is on her own more or less. And yes, that includes reading and writing her own reports.
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