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Forum -> Inquiries & Offers -> Israel related Inquiries & Aliyah Questions
My ds wants to join the idf and make aliya, need advice
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 26 2022, 5:34 am
amother [ Dahlia ] wrote:

I second the recommendation to speak to NBN and if your DS is religious and not interested in a hesder program then he would likely be headed to Nachal/ Netzach Yehuda.
But not all dati chayalim want to be in the charedi unit. Just a thought.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 26 2022, 5:38 am
juggling wrote:
Many religious soldiers serve in mainstream army units. While they might be in the minority as religious soldiers the army has a policy to respect religious needs of soldiers, allow them time to pray every day, etc. There are rabbis in the army who serve as a support system for whoever needs religious services.

And they won't be such a tiny minority. There are plenty of religious soldiers serving in mixed dati-chiloni units.
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amother
Dahlia


 

Post Tue, Jul 26 2022, 8:45 am
juggling wrote:
Many religious soldiers serve in mainstream army units. While they might be in the minority as religious soldiers the army has a policy to respect religious needs of soldiers, allow them time to pray every day, etc. There are rabbis in the army who serve as a support system for whoever needs religious services.

Fair enough. To me it sounded like OP was looking for a track that would be somewhat religious. Perhaps I misunderstood.

shabbatiscoming wrote:
But not all dati chayalim want to be in the charedi unit. Just a thought.

Agreed but other than going through hesder I don't know of any dati leumi units.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 26 2022, 9:56 am
amother [ Dahlia ] wrote:
Agreed but other than going through hesder I don't know of any dati leumi units.
right, they would be in a mixed unit. A d many boys come out just as religious as before they went in.
My point was that there are other ways to be in the army besides for hesder or nachal haredi. Many dati leumi boys would not ever think about nachal haredi or hesder. They just join the army.
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proudmommy0f4




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 26 2022, 10:04 am
I'd just like to pop in and second contacting the Michael Levin Lone Soldier organization https://michaellevinlonesoldier.org/ My son went the Hesder yeshiva route, but the organization is set up for all sorts of lone soldiers!
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etky




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 26 2022, 10:58 am
Alternative wrote:
As juggling said, you need a control group to be able to say this.
Obviously among groups that marry off their kids young, less will become OTD. It's not so easy or tempting to become secular once you have a spouse and maybe a baby on the way.

You need to compare to religious SINGLE people who didn't do the army. How many are still religious at 25.

I am very familiar with dati youth who didn't do the army (girls) and many, many became far less dati in their early twenties. If they had been in the army, you would have blamed that.

Also, as said above, the charedi unit isn't really mainstream charedi. Many of the soldiers in the unit are on the fringes of charedi society as is. You can't use them as an example of anything. (they are great soldiers, I just mean they aren't indicative as a group of the society they came from).


I agree with this and with Juggling's post 100% - based on what I have seen among my kids' (all early and mid-twenties) contemporaries.
The seeds are already there well, well before they enter the army.
And I agree with Dr. Mom that OP's son does NOT sound like a likely candidate to go off the derech while in the army.
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amother
Dahlia


 

Post Tue, Jul 26 2022, 12:28 pm
shabbatiscoming wrote:
right, they would be in a mixed unit. A d many boys come out just as religious as before they went in.
My point was that there are other ways to be in the army besides for hesder or nachal haredi. Many dati leumi boys would not ever think about nachal haredi or hesder. They just join the army.

We walk in different circles, I guess. All the boys I know either go Nachal or go hesder. I don't know any religious boys who take a different route. Smile

But if you have different information than I do, OP's son will only benefit.

I remember hearing years ago about Shachar Kachol. She can look that up, too.
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BadTichelDay




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 26 2022, 1:13 pm
amother [ Dahlia ] wrote:
We walk in different circles, I guess. All the boys I know either go Nachal or go hesder. I don't know any religious boys who take a different route. Smile

But if you have different information than I do, OP's son will only benefit.

I remember hearing years ago about Shachar Kachol. She can look that up, too.


A lot of them do go to all kinds of units. Mostly DL soldiers but I've also seen some which are kind of traditionally frum eidot hamizrach. Asides from hesder and other frum units, there is at least a sprinkling of frum soldiers all over and all the more so in the "better" infantry units. Shachar Kachol is a special Airforce support program for married chareidi soldiers who go home every night, if I'm not mistaken. I work with ordinary soldiers on a daily basis in my job.
In the army, there is a kind of competition between the army rabbinate which upholds Jewish and traditional values and parts of the educational corps which try to push a left-wing secular agenda. Soldiers in the ordinary units get an earful of both, wherever they come from.
I know personally a woman who came from a secular family who became a BT in the army, because of the things she saw and learned there. Another one from a totally secular kibbutz staid secular but had her first ever pesach seder in the army and it had impressed her. Someone who grew up very frum and insular might get a bit shocked because of the exposure to so many different shades and ideas from quite frum to very secular. The army is called a melting pot for a reason. Melting however doesn't have to mean giving up one's identity. Personally, I think it should be rebranded as the cholent pot of the nation, because the different parts may gain flavor from each other but usually stay recognizable Wink
A boy with a good head on his shoulders who knows what he stands for and wants to stay frum can do it easily enough and maybe even get chizuk out of it if he sticks to other frum soldiers and the army rabbanim. It is definitely a much more Jewish environment than any university in the US! My dh did the army in his day and staid frum. Discuss with your ds if he wants a mechina, it might help him a lot to adapt and navigate the system better.
Can't give special tips for lone soldiers though, beyond what others have posted already.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 26 2022, 1:38 pm
amother [ Dahlia ] wrote:
We walk in different circles, I guess. All the boys I know either go Nachal or go hesder. I don't know any religious boys who take a different route. Smile

But if you have different information than I do, OP's son will only benefit.

I remember hearing years ago about Shachar Kachol. She can look that up, too.
Many boys from families I know, who may not want to do hesder, and who eould not feel comfortable in nachal haredi, go to different units in the army.
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amother
Dahlia


 

Post Tue, Jul 26 2022, 3:10 pm
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Many boys from families I know, who may not want to do hesder, and who eould not feel comfortable in nachal haredi, go to different units in the army.

I believe you.

I'm just explaining why I didn't mention it myself.

I'm glad there are enough of us on that we can give OP a wide array of options for her son.
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Jul 26 2022, 7:29 pm
Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond to my question Each experience and insight has been truly helpful as we navigate this process!
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amother
Sapphire


 

Post Sat, Aug 13 2022, 6:22 pm
ยท
๐ˆ๐’ ๐˜๐Ž๐”๐‘ ๐‚๐‡๐ˆ๐‹๐ƒ ๐„๐๐‹๐ˆ๐’๐“๐ˆ๐๐† ๐ˆ๐ ๐“๐‡๐„ ๐ˆ๐ƒ๐…?
In our continuous effort to provide valuable information to Olim and Anglos, we are hosting a webinar on the topic of ๐‘ช๐’‰๐’Š๐’๐’…๐’“๐’†๐’ ๐’†๐’๐’๐’Š๐’”๐’•๐’Š๐’๐’ˆ ๐’Š๐’ ๐‘ป๐’‰๐’† ๐‘ฐ๐‘ซ๐‘ญ which many Anglo parents and parents of Lone Soldiers find very confusing.
The webinar will take place on ๐’๐ฎ๐ง๐๐š๐ฒ, ๐€๐ฎ๐ ๐ฎ๐ฌ๐ญ ๐Ÿ๐Ÿ’, ๐Ÿ๐ŸŽ๐Ÿ๐Ÿ ๐Ÿ๐ŸŽ ๐š๐ฆ ๐๐ƒ๐“/๐Ÿ ๐ฉ๐ฆ ๐„๐ƒ๐“/๐Ÿ” ๐ฉ๐ฆ ๐”๐Š/๐Ÿ• ๐ฉ๐ฆ ๐’๐จ๐ฎ๐ญ๐ก ๐€๐Ÿ๐ซ๐ข๐œ๐š/ ๐Ÿ– ๐ฉ๐ฆ ๐ˆ๐ฌ๐ซ๐š๐ž๐ฅ
๐“๐Ž ๐‘๐„๐†๐ˆ๐’๐“๐„๐‘, ๐‚๐‹๐ˆ๐‚๐Š ๐Ž๐ ๐“๐‡๐ˆ๐’ ๐‹๐ˆ๐๐Š https://us06web.zoom.us/.../34.....xgUpA
To help parents better understand this process, I've invited Ari Wruble from the The Michael Levin Base to moderate this webinar with me. We will be discussing a number of topics including:
Drafting information
Applying for the army and eligibility
Service routes - Options that are available to your children
Citizen vs Noncitizen - What does it mean?
What's preferred for your child?
Rights - Lone solider/Oleh rights
Other facts about the army that you may not know
You will also have an opportunity to ask questions during the Q & A session.
๐“๐Ž ๐‘๐„๐†๐ˆ๐’๐“๐„๐‘, ๐‚๐‹๐ˆ๐‚๐Š ๐Ž๐ ๐“๐‡๐ˆ๐’ ๐‹๐ˆ๐๐Š https://us06web.zoom.us/.../34.....xgUpA
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amother
Electricblue


 

Post Sat, Aug 13 2022, 10:36 pm
Okay there are Americans in the army but it is a little harder for them to get into certain units because Israel is afraid to take Americans lest something chas veshalom happen to Americans -they don't want to have it on their hands.
My cousin was able to join his mother is also an Israeli citizen so it probably that's what he was able to get to the unit he wanted. But they are somewhat reluctant. Hesder is a good idea if they have an English yeshiva.
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Another mom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 14 2022, 3:28 am
I know an America who was in Tzabbar in Kibbutz Yavneh. Was great for him, lots of friends... adopted family, Shabbos meals, laundry etc. etc.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 14 2022, 11:51 am
amother [ Electricblue ] wrote:
Okay there are Americans in the army but it is a little harder for them to get into certain units because Israel is afraid to take Americans lest something chas veshalom happen to Americans -they don't want to have it on their hands.
My cousin was able to join his mother is also an Israeli citizen so it probably that's what he was able to get to the unit he wanted. But they are somewhat reluctant. Hesder is a good idea if they have an English yeshiva.

If you are talking about US-Israeli dual citizens, I'd say that I know many US olim/ children of US olim who are in elite units.
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amother
Nemesia


 

Post Sun, Aug 14 2022, 11:54 am
My brother was a chayal boded he did everything through michael levin organization.
He served in Nachal but there werent other americans, his hebrew was good from before and he mostly served with french guys and a few russian guys. He loved it

Kol hakavod to your son!
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FmrNewEnglander




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 15 2022, 12:54 pm
I realize that this was posted months ago -- but you should check out Yeshivat Lev HaTorah and its program Lev LaChayal. Lev LaChayal is its 2nd year program. The boys do "Shana Bet" and then draft in March. It is for boys like your son. https://levhatorah.org/ and https://levlachayal.org/ Let me know if you have any questions. My son is there now.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Tue, Nov 15 2022, 2:42 pm
juggling wrote:
You have statistics to back this up? Comparing against a control group that didn't go to the army? I think this would be very hard to prove.

In the charedi world most kids who go to the army are already on the fringes anyway, so it makes sense that they would grow further from religion while in the army.

In the dati world I am sure some kids become less observant while in the army. But I do think those are kids who were headed in that direction regardless. There is no reason to assume it's *because of* the army.

On the other hand my observation is that most kids who go in strong in their religion, come out just as strong.

People change. Especially in the early adult years. I don't think there's any reason to believe that change happens davka because of the army.


I think that because there are so many subsets of the dati groups that everyone is referring to there crowd and disregarding other crowds.

From my experience:

You have plenty of dati kids who go into regular units. It really does depend on the unit. Some are very "frum friendly" and some aren't. In general it seems to me the more intense the unit = the more frum friendly. The kids who are in kravi or in things like cyber tend to do great religiously.
The ones I know who where "jobnikim" where its more of a party environment didn't do as well....

I think going to a mechina is a really good idea for a lone solider so that they get an opportunity to learn the system and figure out what the best place for them is
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FmrNewEnglander




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 15 2022, 2:49 pm
I think going to a mechina is a really good idea for a lone solider so that they get an opportunity to learn the system and figure out what the best place for them is[/quote]

This is going to sound silly but Mechina's are very israeli. You are thrown in -- and your son may be the only Anglo. There are advantages to be sure -- but it is can be a rough first step. Places like Lev Hatorah give a softer landing. Lev brings the boys along for a year and a half before the army (and gets them ready religiously and physically and mentally) -- and they do it with usually 25-30 other anglo boys who are doing the same thing.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Tue, Nov 15 2022, 2:54 pm
FmrNewEnglander wrote:
I think going to a mechina is a really good idea for a lone solider so that they get an opportunity to learn the system and figure out what the best place for them is


This is going to sound silly but Mechina's are very israeli. You are thrown in -- and your son may be the only Anglo. There are advantages to be sure -- but it is can be a rough first step. Places like Lev Hatorah give a softer landing. Lev brings the boys along for a year and a half before the army (and gets them ready religiously and physically and mentally) -- and they do it with usually 25-30 other anglo boys who are doing the same thing.[/quote]

Flip side is that 1 and half years + 3 years of service + 4 years of bachlors+ 2 years of masters = he would be almost 30 by the time he could enter the work force.

There are 6 month mechinot that he can do just to get his feet wet and "land" before he jumps in...
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