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Under the radar HS Student
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 15 2022, 9:52 am
amother Green wrote:
I know girls who walked through high school and realized senior year that pretty much nobody knew them. In a school with a couple hundred girls, when it came time for the principal to help then get into seminary, she didn't know anything about them other than what was written on a piece of paper.


Yup. When I got to 12th grade, I had a meeting with the 12th grade mechaneches, who didn't know me from beans (she had taught my class back in 9th grade for 1 period a week). My meeting lasted less than 5 minutes in my estimation. She looked at my academic record and told me she thinks I should go to a highly academic seminary in the US (I later found out she always tried to push this seminary). I told her I wanted to go to EY and she was dismissive of my wants. She was pushing girls the school had connections to (like daughters of teachers) for that. (Keep in mind back then there weren't as many seminaries in EY for Americans as there are today.) BH my family had connections to the seminary I wanted to go to and I ended up getting accepted there (on Pending).

I know a student (sister of DD's friend) in a school in Lakewood that was flat out told the school will not support her application to a certain seminary because they have "better" students they are reserving for that. Girl is solid frum good student nice girl.

I'm not so into the jobs being a big deal - there aren't so many jobs as there are girls. But I think the seminary is a bigger deal, because every student should have the opportunity to go to a seminary that is a good fit for her, and not be shuffled to wherever the teacher who doesn't know her decides she can plunk her.
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LK1




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 15 2022, 9:56 am
Chayalle wrote:
Yup. When I got to 12th grade, I had a meeting with the 12th grade mechaneches, who didn't know me from beans (she had taught my class back in 9th grade for 1 period a week). My meeting lasted less than 5 minutes in my estimation. She looked at my academic record and told me she thinks I should go to a highly academic seminary in the US (I later found out she always tried to push this seminary). I told her I wanted to go to EY and she was dismissive of my wants. She was pushing girls the school had connections to (like daughters of teachers) for that. (Keep in mind back then there weren't as many seminaries in EY for Americans as there are today.) BH my family had connections to the seminary I wanted to go to and I ended up getting accepted there (on Pending).

I know a student (sister of DD's friend) in a school in Lakewood that was flat out told the school will not support her application to a certain seminary because they have "better" students they are reserving for that. Girl is solid frum good student nice girl.

I'm not so into the jobs being a big deal - there aren't so many jobs as there are girls. But I think the seminary is a bigger deal, because every student should have the opportunity to go to a seminary that is a good fit for her, and not be shuffled to wherever the teacher who doesn't know her decides she can plunk her.


1000%
It's about schools noticing and showing they care for every single girl equally. If they are smart, dumb, rich, choshuv or anything else.

They can do this by giving jobs equally, or helping for sems equally, or just smiling and noticing every single girl.
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DVOM




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 15 2022, 10:38 am
LK1 wrote:
1000%
It's about schools noticing and showing they care for every single girl equally. If they are smart, dumb, rich, choshuv or anything else.

They can do this by giving jobs equally, or helping for sems equally, or just smiling and noticing every single girl.


I applaud this in theory, but in practice, is such total equality really possible?
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LK1




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 15 2022, 10:48 am
DVOM wrote:
I applaud this in theory, but in practice, is such total equality really possible?


You're right, not total but some more then now
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amother
Oak


 

Post Thu, Sep 15 2022, 2:15 pm
Throughout high school there are multiple opportunities for jobs. If someone was actually keeping on top of the situation, every girl could be used for something. Although many people have differing opinions on how important this is, I believe it can be done.
I actually still feel the sting of not getting an 8th grade job. Yeah even to my own ears (18 years later) it seems silly but in a class of less than 30 girls every single girl got a job except for me. I actually mentioned it to the teacher in the later part of the year and her response was a variation of oops! it really is hard to find jobs for every single girl. Seeing how I remember this so many years later, I believe that being on top of the situation and making sure to utilize every girls talents and giving them a job throughout high school is important.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 15 2022, 2:42 pm
amother Oak wrote:
Throughout high school there are multiple opportunities for jobs. If someone was actually keeping on top of the situation, every girl could be used for something. Although many people have differing opinions on how important this is, I believe it can be done.
I actually still feel the sting of not getting an 8th grade job. Yeah even to my own ears (18 years later) it seems silly but in a class of less than 30 girls every single girl got a job except for me. I actually mentioned it to the teacher in the later part of the year and her response was a variation of oops! it really is hard to find jobs for every single girl. Seeing how I remember this so many years later, I believe that being on top of the situation and making sure to utilize every girls talents and giving them a job throughout high school is important.


I agree. I think every girl should get a job. I think it's impossible, though, to give every girl a job she wants or idealizes. That's why I think that even though I didn't enjoy my job, I did have one, and that's got to be enough for me, as an adult. And as a parent, I try to fill my kids and let them know their job doesn't define their worth.

I will say that IMVHO the high school my girls went to really tries hard in terms of getting to know the girls (mechaneches, etc...) and giving them jobs. And even with that, I have a relative who didn't feel her DD was able to "shine enough". That's where I think people have to realize that it's impossible to make every child/parent satisfied.
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amother
Candycane


 

Post Thu, Sep 15 2022, 2:59 pm
amother Oak wrote:
Throughout high school there are multiple opportunities for jobs. If someone was actually keeping on top of the situation, every girl could be used for something. Although many people have differing opinions on how important this is, I believe it can be done.
I actually still feel the sting of not getting an 8th grade job. Yeah even to my own ears (18 years later) it seems silly but in a class of less than 30 girls every single girl got a job except for me. I actually mentioned it to the teacher in the later part of the year and her response was a variation of oops! it really is hard to find jobs for every single girl. Seeing how I remember this so many years later, I believe that being on top of the situation and making sure to utilize every girls talents and giving them a job throughout high school is important.


I know it seems silly but stings here too. "Everyone gets a job in X grade". Except me and like 2 others. That is where girls got together, made friends, hung out. They had projects to do, events to plan... it hurt. No one knew me.

And yes, I tried to go up to teachers, ask questions, start a relationship. But it just never went anywhere.
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amother
Mistyrose


 

Post Thu, Sep 15 2022, 5:59 pm
amother Iris wrote:


My daughter just graduated Bnos Yisroel in Baltimore and is now in seminary. I loved every single aspect about Bnos. After reading the comments in this thread, I love the school even more.

When Bnos says they want every girl to shine, they mean it. In 11th and 12th grade, every girl is head of something and no one job is better than the other. They pick the production heads not for talent, but out of knowing each girl and what she needs the most at that time. The production solos are given to everyone who wants one, which means everyone can have her moment. This means production is not a time for talent, but for nachas. The ONLY job which requires high grades are the yearbook editors (there are 4 of them) only because they know the demand on the job, and a girl who is struggling in classes won't be able to do her school work and yearbook work at the same time. The two wealthiest families in town send their girls to Bnos and those girls get the same kinds of jobs as anyone else, chosen for what they need at that time, just like everyone else.

There are four jobs who get hoodies, but that is not because it's a "better" job; they get them because they are all year jobs (as opposed to chanukah chagiga, shabbaton, etc), and those are actually the jobs most girls do not want... so it's a bit of incentive.

To my knowledge, the other BY here in Baltimore (BY Baltimore) has way more girls, but way more opportunities, and every girl there is also head of something.

I really love and appreciate how the Baltimore schools seem to see the whole child and not just money, grades, or yichus.


I'm so glad you wrote this. I went to Bais Yaakov of Baltimore and didn't feel like this at all. Girls tried out for things and were chosen based on whether they fit the job. Girls were encouraged to take on jobs that were outside of their comfort zone. I was one in a class of 100+ and was head of a thing or two that interested me in high school, and took part in many others. THere were so many opportunities, I honesty can't relate to most of the posts on here about a few girls chosen for everything.

My daughter is in Bnos Yisroel of Baltimore, and although she's not in high school yet, I see that this a huge priority for them. I love a lot of parts of the school, and this is one of them.

I was wondering if I was missing something...Now I'm just glad that I grew up here and live here now Smile
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amother
Puce


 

Post Thu, Sep 15 2022, 6:26 pm
I was in high school 40 years ago, in a class of 55 or so, so few enough girls that at least the majority should have had a chance to shine. The same ten girls got all the jobs, slots to BY convention, recognition and so on. I remember when one of my friends actually got chosen to head production and go to convention. It was a pelleh, because she didn't belong to the in-group that got to do everything. I and most other girls never got to do anything - not GO, not head of anything, not yearbook. Really, nothing. We might just as well not have existed as far as the administration and teachers were concerned. And I am still bitter and resentful about it. (I know, grow up already.)

So yeah, I shouldn't have cared about it but it was really hurtful to be passed over for everything. I have a very low opinion of my abilities and talents (I.e. that I don't really have any) and maybe it's justified and I really am nothing special, but I think a caring high school would have encouraged all of us to be the best we could be, instead of relying on the girls they already knew were good at things.
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amother
Caramel


 

Post Thu, Sep 15 2022, 6:58 pm
amother Oak wrote:
Throughout high school there are multiple opportunities for jobs. If someone was actually keeping on top of the situation, every girl could be used for something. Although many people have differing opinions on how important this is, I believe it can be done.
I actually still feel the sting of not getting an 8th grade job. Yeah even to my own ears (18 years later) it seems silly but in a class of less than 30 girls every single girl got a job except for me. I actually mentioned it to the teacher in the later part of the year and her response was a variation of oops! it really is hard to find jobs for every single girl. Seeing how I remember this so many years later, I believe that being on top of the situation and making sure to utilize every girls talents and giving them a job throughout high school is important.


Ouch. I'm crying for you. That's an awful feeling.


Shout out to bais faiga lakewood 8th grade for carefully selecting each girl for a job and keeping it pretty even, each committee gets time off and a unique sweatshirt to design.
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