How much are you paying for your apartment in EY for Succos?

amother

Amber

Fri, Sep 16 2022, 2:54 am

amother Mustard wrote:

This post is pretty judgemental and full of resentment. Why are you judging the way people choose to spend their money? I can reassure you, that people who spend that kind of money on Tom tov, are also big baalei tzedaka. Telling people that if they have that kind of money they are obligated to support people that made a choice to live in ey or they should too make that choice is just not right. It’s beautiful that people are willing to sacrifice in order to live in ey but to judge those who don’t is hardly the way of the Torah. Many people come for sukkos because its aliya laregel. For that alone it’s worth spending that money if you have it. And do realize, many of them come because they love ey and they really would want to live there but they have many many reasons they can’t, so they might as well enjoy a beautiful yom tov. No need to give an opinion on other peoples life choices.

Honestly they do our economy a lot of good as tourists, and as citizens they'd be kvetchy and entitled....so let them stay where they are and come visit.

amother

Pearl

Fri, Sep 16 2022, 4:07 am

amother Banana wrote:

I do think it's wrong to milk people for money to cover expenses. And yes, people do it. My friends neighbor tried cheshboning how much money shed need to cover rent plus five tickets to America... She lives out of yerushalayim and no one will pay that much.

When I lived in Yerushalayim 8-10 years ago, renting an old 2 bedroom apartment, we sublet it for chodesh Nissan to a neighbor who needed more space for their married children and families. (They'd use it for all of Nissan, not just pesach.) The first time we charged rent plus utilities, which was about $1200. After that, we charged about an extra 100 because it was really a stress and tircha for me to clean the apartment for pesach. We wouldn't dream charge more just because we could get it. We just wanted to cover expenses associated with the apartment.

The neighbor we rented out to us is very choshuv, well-known person. (If I said their name on ima, several people will recognize it.) Someone in the neighborhood was horrified that we rented it to this family and didn't give it to them for free...

Sorry of remind me of the way this thread is going in circles...

Halevai there would be more ppl like you..you are a true inspiration.
You weren't looking to milk with excuses of entitlement of others to cover you travel expenses (otherwise it's not a worthwhile business arrangement) It was about the apartment itself and it's associated costs. I'm in awe of you!

amother

Pearl

Fri, Sep 16 2022, 4:19 am

amother Buttercup wrote:

Did you know that hotels next week in London are going for over 1000 pounds a night? Up from 200. What a chutzpa!

Do you know what? I was supposed to go to London next week for a family simcha. The price of tickets jumped overnight from 250 pounds to 1200. What a chutzpa! Opportunism! Taking advantage of people who want to attend the Queen's funeral! In New York I can get a hotel next week for a quarter of that.

So go to NY for your vacation. But my simcha is in London. It doesn't help me to go to NY. So I'm staying home. I'm not going because I can't afford the price. That's life.

August is not peak season in central Yerushalayim. In August Israelis vacation as well and people stay all over the place including Tiverya, Tzfat and the Yam hamelach. Peak season in central Yerushalayim is Sukkos and Pesach. You want to attend the Rebbe's court? You want to be central? Your "simcha" is peak season? Either pay the price or stay home.

NB As a yerushalmi, I was horrified at the prices people can charge. I guess that is why people like me live in the suburbs not in the center of town. The max I could get for my 5 bedroom with a sukka over sukkos would be $2000. If I was desperate to be in the center of town, I'd have to stay further out and walk in. Not as convenient, not as fun, but hey, when Mashiach comes I'm going to be doing aliya leregel with all my koach.

I do wish to make you aware that if you were looking to book a ticket so close before travelling that the prices would anyhow have shot up dramatically. Yes, from one day to the next, even without the Queens funeral happening.
Many people wait too close to the simcha to make a decision (or don't know enough in advance if they can go) and then prices shoot up drastically so they can no longer afford to make the trip. I understand that not everyone can book enough in advance when prices are lower.
It's a pity that you have to miss the simcha.

amother

Amber

Fri, Sep 16 2022, 4:38 am

I'm going over one of these lists and so far I've seen ONE overpriced apartment and several underpriced.

I'm taking into consideration not just location but number of bedrooms, number of beds, how many the sukkah can sit and whether it exists, floor, number of bathrooms. I'm pretty good at this because I know the basic value of Jerusalem apartments from househunting for myself. Yes there is a lot of variation - a floor that is a minus floor (-1, -2) is cheaper, as is a floor number over fourth. Specifically no sukka or small sukka brings down the price pretty drastically if you're discussing Sukkot-specific rentals. The more beds the higher the price. The more bathrooms the higher the price. Shabbat elevator raises the price, elevator in general raises the price. No elevator isn't a big deal for Israelis (meaning it doesn't LOWER the price) but for foreigners it will lower the value significantly unless you are first floor/ ground floor. But a higher floor with a Shabbat elevator isn't a factor which will lower the price.

I saw two apartments almost identical but $4k difference in price. The biggest difference (on paper, I haven't seen each of them) is one less bed. Pretty telling, I think. Though one apartment may have been renovated and the other not.

I've seen some luxury apartments (as in, huge huge plus huge sukkah plus Shabbat elevator etc.) which are priced as, well, luxury apartments. They are likely beautiful and fairly new.

There are those who charge per night, they are probably not looking to rent out for the whole period and therefore the price range is different as are their projected expenses.

amother

Currant

Fri, Sep 16 2022, 4:40 am

amother Banana wrote:
I do think it's wrong to milk people for money to cover expenses. And yes, people do it. My friends neighbor tried cheshboning how much money shed need to cover rent plus five tickets to America... She lives out of yerushalayim and no one will pay that much.

When I lived in Yerushalayim 8-10 years ago, renting an old 2 bedroom apartment, we sublet it for chodesh Nissan to a neighbor who needed more space for their married children and families. (They'd use it for all of Nissan, not just pesach.) The first time we charged rent plus utilities, which was about $1200. After that, we charged about an extra 100 because it was really a stress and tircha for me to clean the apartment for pesach. We wouldn't dream charge more just because we could get it. We just wanted to cover expenses associated with the apartment.

The neighbor we rented out to us is very choshuv, well-known person. (If I said their name on ima, several people will recognize it.) Someone in the neighborhood was horrified that we rented it to this family and didn't give it to them for free...

Sorry of remind me of the way this thread is going in circles..."

amother Pearl wrote:
"Halevai there would be more ppl like you..you are a true inspiration.
You weren't looking to milk with excuses of entitlement of others to cover you travel expenses (otherwise it's not a worthwhile business arrangement) It was about the apartment itself and it's associated costs. I'm in awe of you!"

I dont understand why you think this person is so extra special and everyone else is horribe?
This was 8-10 years ago.
Rent in all neighborhoods for long term doubled, so short term rentals also doubled.
This was nissan, Everyone leaves for nissan so there are so many more available apartments, hence lower prices.

An old 2 bedroom apartment even NOW, for SUKKOS, in a PRIME area is around $3000 or less, if its more its renovated and beautiful. So in reality, long term rent price went up even more than the short term rent prices. And the prices 99% of people are charging are exactly this. RENT+Utilities+the amount they need to make all the effort and work worth it.

The only people I know getting an amount that even they think is crazy is someone who had a friends friend call them up and say Will you move out into a hotel and we'll pay for it plus... so the issue isnt with them, its with the people who do this and make the market go up.

Most people are not trying to take advantage of anyone else. They are offering to work hard for x amount, take it or leave it.

Personally, I would need to make a significant amount of money to make it worth it for me to move out, with my family, away from my husbands shul, for YT, cook in someones kitchen etc.
No my parents aren't flying us in. Nor are we flying oursleves in to USA. But im not deciding to charge $30,000 for an unrenovated israeli apartment - it would never fly... and that would be as you say "disgusting"
but I dont know anyone doing anything near that

amother

Pearl

Fri, Sep 16 2022, 4:42 am

amother Amber wrote:

The current updated list you have seen, has had some people already knock down by heavy thousands. The previous list had several abnormal overpriced ones.

amother

Buttercup

Fri, Sep 16 2022, 5:11 am

amother Pearl wrote:

Sorry, I do this two or three times a year and never seen things jump like this. I can't book in advance for personal reasons and I take into account that the tickets won't be in the 100 dollar region but you can usually get something for 250 or 300.

Stop blaming other reasons and just face the fact that demand drives prices up. In every single aspect of life.

amother

Pearl

Fri, Sep 16 2022, 5:39 am

amother Buttercup wrote:

Prices a few days before travel are never the same as when booked in advance. It's an undisputed fact.
This with the Queen is something completely unprecedented and with very limited availability due to the timing, of course the prices would rise very very significantly.

How can you compare it to rental in Jerusalem for the chagim? Ticket prices are cheaper when booked in advance and only rise due to limited availability closer to the time of travel. This is NOT the case with rentals at all.
It's a complete different ball game

amother

Amber

Fri, Sep 16 2022, 5:43 am

amother Pearl wrote:

And what's your answer or the hotel fees she mentioned?

amother

Pearl

Fri, Sep 16 2022, 5:45 am

amother Amber wrote:

Meaning, you agree that these apartments are being offered for a LOT less than they SHOULD be going for, and the people offering them are not going to get a profit unless somehow they reduce the expenses.

Not all. Some.
As mentioned, in this updated list, some outrageous prices have dropped by heavy thousands.

It appears there might be more apartments available than actual demand.
In that case, based on what all you have been saying about supply and demand, it makes perfectly sense that price's have dropped.

Hmmmm, So maybe we have to rethink if we can say that some apartments are going for too cheap....

amother

Amber

Fri, Sep 16 2022, 5:59 am

amother Pearl wrote:

Some apartments are going for too cheap. I'm looking at the prices and they don't even cover rent, much less utilities. I'm kind of wondering why they are even being offered at all, because it's clear (to me) that the price will bring a net loss. And I say that knowing 100% what the going rates for rent are in that area, and knowing 100% what the set prices for electricity, water, and cleaning are. I look at these prices which you claim prove the person overcharged and was greedy, and I see nothing but loss.

I'm trying to puzzle out what they hope to gain by renting their place out at all. Because objectively they would not be any worse off if they took it off the market. As is they are barely going to receive the month's rent, and some won't even receive that. And while rent stays the same whether you are home or not, utilities don't, so someone paying them barely enough rent but using outrageous amounts of electricity is NOT going to bring a profit, they'll cause a loss. Especially if you have to either pay a cleaning fee or lose work days to clean it yourself.

And some of these places, I am telling you 1000%, are charging LESS than the month's rent. You probably think that is praiseworthy. I don't think it's praiseworthy to incur a loss so that another Jew can have their luxury vacation at a cheap price, and I certainly don't think it is praiseworthy for the visiting family to be agreeing to such a price, or for people to be gloating or praising such things.

amother

Pearl

Fri, Sep 16 2022, 6:07 am

amother Amber wrote:

Are you insinuating that there are a bunch of people who don't know how to add and subtract?
Who would be insane enough to agree to rent at a loss? This sounds crazy.