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Forum -> Household Management -> Finances
Keeping up an image - irresponsibly spending



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Would you lie or steal to keep up appearances?
I know someone who does- lots of pressure  
 6%  [ 6 ]
I do lie on tuition forms to get a break  
 3%  [ 3 ]
I pay for everything honestly BH tough but it's the right thing  
 90%  [ 90 ]
Total Votes : 99



amother
OP


 

Post Fri, Dec 09 2022, 8:29 am
How common is going into serious debt that unfortunately could lead to lying/stealing basically not being financially responsible in order to keep up appearances?

Just heard these getting breaks on tution stories are outrageous people still going on their vacations, summer homes, luxury cars and luxury homes Can't Believe It

* meant the debt can cause the stealing or lying to govt getting arrested/cheating financially etc....)

Getting into debt unnecessary or irresponsibly in order to keep up appearances not just going into debt to pay bills knowing that they spending way way too much and still do and get into debt for keeping up appearances luxurious lifestyle
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amother
Poinsettia


 

Post Fri, Dec 09 2022, 8:39 am
amother OP wrote:
How common is going into debt/lying/stealing basically not being financially responsible in order to keep up appearances?

Just heard these getting breaks on tution stories are outrageous people still going on their vacations, summer homes, luxury cars and luxury homes Can't Believe It


- Second/third/fourth/fifth hand information is nothing but gossip
- Some have had their summer homes, luxury cars, luxury homes prior to falling into debt.
- An occasional vacation (within reason) can be necessity for mental or physical health
- The cost of an occasional vacation (again, within reason) can be minimal as compared to tuition
- Tuition is a backbreaking expense - it is more than mortgages in many cases. It's ok for people to create a budget that allows them to breathe too. We have large families (KEH) and that means parents are often paying for tuition over a 20-30 year period. Families & people need to have a life too, not every waking moment and not every possible resources should be directed to tuition.
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amother
Denim


 

Post Fri, Dec 09 2022, 8:43 am
We pay full tuition. My children’s rebbeim are poor and they are heroes and I wish I could give them a trust fund but the least I can do is pay full tuition.

We drive a camry and sienna 2013 and 2014. No vacations bec of logistics but if we did vacation it would be to a relative’s home in Florida or simple local places.

Someone yesterday told dh his camry is not bakovodik for him 😂 he should drive a Lexus.

Honestly I feel like choking that person because I hate that attitude and the gashmius and materialism that is overtaking this generation and my town.

I do know someone who is very into stuff (food cars vacation) and his wife is furious at him because he leaves her alone at night with their newborn so he can party with his friends. Not what you wrote about op but it’s the same immaturity and FOMO.
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amother
Cobalt


 

Post Fri, Dec 09 2022, 8:45 am
Another one of these? And you want people to fill out a poll?
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amother
Navy


 

Post Fri, Dec 09 2022, 9:04 am
Nothing new. DH showed me the chafetz chayim wrote about this over a hundred years ago in the Biur Halacha (mishna berurah).
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mizle10




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 09 2022, 11:31 am
How is debt the same as lying or stealing???

I give you a bracha you never understand what it means to have fixed expenses and fall on hard times.
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amother
Turquoise


 

Post Fri, Dec 09 2022, 11:46 am
My kids school has sent families because they were living a high life yet not paying tuition.
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amother
Aster


 

Post Fri, Dec 09 2022, 11:50 am
amother Denim wrote:
Someone yesterday told dh his camry is not bakovodik for him 😂 he should drive a Lexus.

Honestly I feel like choking that person because I hate that attitude and the gashmius and materialism that is overtaking this generation and my town.
He has a pathetic outlook on life but some people are just wired that way. BH I don’t feel the need for any of these luxuries. Which is good because I can’t by any stretch afford it. I feel sorry for people with that yetzer hara.
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amother
Plum


 

Post Fri, Dec 09 2022, 12:39 pm
amother Poinsettia wrote:
- Second/third/fourth/fifth hand information is nothing but gossip
- Some have had their summer homes, luxury cars, luxury homes prior to falling into debt.
- An occasional vacation (within reason) can be necessity for mental or physical health
- The cost of an occasional vacation (again, within reason) can be minimal as compared to tuition
- Tuition is a backbreaking expense - it is more than mortgages in many cases. It's ok for people to create a budget that allows them to breathe too. We have large families (KEH) and that means parents are often paying for tuition over a 20-30 year period. Families & people need to have a life too, not every waking moment and not every possible resources should be directed to tuition.


So well said!
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amother
Rose


 

Post Fri, Dec 09 2022, 12:42 pm
no
and don't know anyone who would
steal?
um no we are not the shoplifters walking out of smash n grabs

wrong is wrong
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amother
Broom


 

Post Fri, Dec 09 2022, 12:53 pm
amother Denim wrote:
We pay full tuition. My children’s rebbeim are poor and they are heroes and I wish I could give them a trust fund but the least I can do is pay full tuition.

We drive a camry and sienna 2013 and 2014. No vacations bec of logistics but if we did vacation it would be to a relative’s home in Florida or simple local places.

Someone yesterday told dh his camry is not bakovodik for him 😂 he should drive a Lexus.

Honestly I feel like choking that person because I hate that attitude and the gashmius and materialism that is overtaking this generation and my town.

I do know someone who is very into stuff (food cars vacation) and his wife is furious at him because he leaves her alone at night with their newborn so he can party with his friends. Not what you wrote about op but it’s the same immaturity and FOMO.


I would consider a 2013 and 2014 camry and sienna to be luxurious. We share a 2007 Honda accord between the two of us. The fender is held together by zip ties. A BIL of mine told me my car is an embarrassment and I should be leasing something newer. But I have tuition to pay (I get a break from the school, but not a large one) and a family to take care of BH. We don't do vacations.

I agree with your post, each person where they are holding should do their best to support our schools.
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amother
OP


 

Post Fri, Dec 09 2022, 1:12 pm
mizle10 wrote:
How is debt the same as lying or stealing???

I give you a bracha you never understand what it means to have fixed expenses and fall on hard times.


So sorry corrected this line meant the debt can cause the stealing or lying to govt getting arrested/cheating financially etc....)

Getting into debt unnecessary or irresponsibly in order to keep up appearances not just going into debt to pay bills knowing that they spending way way too much and still do and get into debt for keeping up appearances luxurious lifestyle
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amother
Diamond


 

Post Sat, Dec 10 2022, 6:28 pm
To the ima who said Stealing? we don't do smash and grab--I guess you're unaware that white-collar theft is still theft, whether it's done through defrauding investors, tax evasion, insurance fraud, bilking Medicaid, or other means. The difference is that the prisons for smash-and-grab aren't as nice as the ones for white-collar theft.
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Redbird




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Dec 10 2022, 6:37 pm
I just read in interesting perspective on this today, in an inner child book. That overspending to keep up appearances is a form of codependency — it comes from not having an inner sense of self and seeking identity through external means.
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amother
Mocha


 

Post Sat, Dec 10 2022, 7:04 pm
mizle10 wrote:
How is debt the same as lying or stealing???

I give you a bracha you never understand what it means to have fixed expenses and fall on hard times.


Was wondering the same thing… I opened up the thread thinking it was about going into debt or taking loans to maintain a certain lifestyle, but somehow its about lying and stealing…
They are not at all the same thing
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amother
Bone


 

Post Sat, Dec 10 2022, 7:16 pm
I know many many people that use every penny and then more to keep up an image. It’s very difficult in certain communities to be less than. And many people can’t leave because of their hashkafah or chasidus, they have there entire family and to leave would be way too hard, the place they live their entire livelihoods is there and to leave would mean to start from scratch- I’m talking about people who didn’t have much English education and are making a decent living but expenses are so high. To leave the community means starting over and they won’t necessarily be any better off.
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