Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
S/o vacation rules - any principals on here care to explain



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 6:51 am
elaborate on why schools persist in creating ever-thicker rule books, with the full knowledge that a large percentage of your student/parent body will not be adhering to made-up rigid restrictions with no shaychus to Yiddishkeit?
Back to top

keym




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 7:05 am
Personally I think there's different conversations at play.

1) ever increasing "yiddishkeit" rules

2) schools having rules and standards for their students

3) schools not enforcing the rules

4) parents deciding that their kids don't have to follow the rules.

I think we need to separate all the aspects of the conversation.

My question to school administrators is why do you keep on putting rules on the book that you don't enforce?
Why don't you just decide what you want to enforce (dress code in school, out of school technology, behavior, attendance) and then make those the rules.
Back to top

amother
Wine


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 8:15 am
I'm not a school principal, and I never sent my kids to schools that made rules for parents, so you can take this with a grain of salt.

The principal really believes that certain behaviors are detrimental to the chinuch that the school is trying to provide. S/he wants the children to have a consistent, all-encompassing environment that supports a certain lifestyle.

Then along come the gvirim who support the school, and they aren't going to give up their vacation. Surely the rules don't apply to them, right? And it's downhill from there.

Just an outsider's guess.
Back to top

amother
Valerian


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 8:22 am
My niece is in a good girls school. Her principal and what she is being taught is very frum. But the student body and parent body are not as frum as them. The principal is idealistic and wants to push the girls and teach them.
Back to top

mha3484




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 9:37 am
My boys yeshiva has been moving away a lot from the concept of rules and instead uses the idea of expectations. There are signs in the hallways, in the lunch room about the expectations of a yeshiva bochur. Its so much healthier. The parent handbook is reasonable. There are no vacation rules but there was an email about the appropriateness of your vacation plans. The email was sent after most people made their plans lol but still was a lot more respectful of parents then telling us where we can and cant go. Discipline is less reactive and more looking at what is under the surface. Its been a really positive change.
Back to top

amother
Wandflower


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 9:52 am
Okay, I'll bite. FYI I'm not a principal but in a related position. The institution that I'm part of does NOT make many of the rules that you are referring to. And there have been many PARENTS who will not send there because they perceive it as "less frum" or "less sheltered" or whatever but the point is that without the parents buying in (that their child must go to the school, camp, program, etc with the most restrictive rules to "protect" their precious and fragile child), the institutions would not have the rules.

Again, my institution does NOT have the rules and chooses to focus on less superficial qualities and we are paying the price with our reputation (and enrollment) so I actually totally get the principals that DO have these ridiculous rules. Because parents claim they don't want them (and perhaps don't want the specific ONE that doesn't work for them personally) but overall...they like the idea of their kids being in the "frummest" schools with the most rules.
Back to top

amother
Oleander


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 9:56 am
Because many parents don't have common sense.
Back to top

amother
Mimosa


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 3:11 pm
I know rules seem superflous, however if not for the rules our girls would look like the average American girl. that is just how it is.
and if not for the rules, we would have parents doing things that are beyond a frum parent or the very least not appropriate for the crowd their kids school caters to.
Back to top

#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 3:44 pm
Some schools give 2 midwinter vacation days

In the middle of the week (Tuesday & Wednesday)
To discourage going away on vacation.
Back to top

amother
NeonPink


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 4:01 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Some schools give 2 midwinter vacation days

In the middle of the week (Tuesday & Wednesday)
To discourage going away on vacation.


Which is totally despicable. All it does it messes up the entire week and makes it even harder for the working parents. Showing up to work Monday, calling out Tues & Wed, only to reappear at work Thurday, and having to do all that catch-up work before the week is out is very challenging.

If you don't want the kids to go on vacation, then simply DON'T give vacation! Not such a hard concept to grasp, imo. But instead what they do is give vacation anyways, and then make those two days impossible for the parents. What a thoughtless and uncaring attitude!
Back to top

amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 4:03 pm
amother NeonPink wrote:
Which is totally despicable. All it does it messes up the entire week and makes it even harder for the working parents. Showing up to work Monday, calling out Tues & Wed, only to reappear at work Thurday, and having to do all that catch-up work before the week is out is very challenging.

If you don't want the kids to go on vacation, then simply DON'T give vacation! Not such a hard concept to grasp, imo. But instead what they do is give vacation anyways, and then make those two days impossible for the parents. What a thoughtless and uncaring attitude!

Imo, they should ban midwinter vacation vacation
Back to top

amother
NeonPink


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 4:08 pm
amother Chartreuse wrote:
Imo, they should ban midwinter vacation vacation


Agree - no vacation, then there's nothing for the school to worry about. Problem solved. They can make it a fun week in school with all play and no work if they want to give the kids a break.
Back to top

amother
Honey


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 4:13 pm
amother Wine wrote:
I'm not a school principal, and I never sent my kids to schools that made rules for parents, so you can take this with a grain of salt.

The principal really believes that certain behaviors are detrimental to the chinuch that the school is trying to provide. S/he wants the children to have a consistent, all-encompassing environment that supports a certain lifestyle.

Then along come the gvirim who support the school, and they aren't going to give up their vacation. Surely the rules don't apply to them, right? And it's downhill from there.

Just an outsider's guess.

Child goes to a school that says in the handbook that they cannot go to any Beach destination, period.

This bothered me a lot because if you accept me into your school you should trust that if I take my child somewhere and supervise them then it's okay. While I would understand if the school had an issue if the girls go by themselves or if they go to their 'grandmother' and are gallivanting around without permission ( and I have heard stories of schools getting calls from random places complaining about their students), they should be okay with parents taking their kids away and trusting their judgment.

And as other people pointed out, Lakewood is 20 minutes away from Long Branch which is also a beach destination. And on the other side of it would they be okay with six girls booking a hotel somewhere in Utah and going skiing because it's not a beach? No.

I had already booked and promised the kids that we would go somewhere this year and so I did.
I felt very guilty about it but I kept saying that I'm sure the school would be okay if we're going away somewhere as a family, to meet cousins which we are, and while we always try to follow the rules, sometimes we have to make an exception and part of being an adult is knowing when that exception should be made and they just shouldn't talk about it.

Then the school gave out a note where they insinuate that the problem is actually if the girls go away by themselves. And that bothered me, because, make up your mind! If the issue is that the girls are running around themselves then just say that they can't go away unless it's with at least one parent and they're going away with family. Why are you banning everything when the real reason is just a specific scenario?

It also happens to be that this is the one time of the year that the kids schedules line up when it's not a yom tov. Very often the girls have a different week between school and camp than the boys do because they start and end at different times and this is one of the only weeks that we can really go away somewhere nice as a family.
Back to top

amother
NeonPink


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 4:18 pm
amother Honey wrote:
Child goes to a school that says in the handbook that they cannot go to any Beach destination, period.

This bothered me a lot because if you accept me into your school you should trust that if I take my child somewhere and supervise them then it's okay. While I would understand if the school had an issue if the girls go by themselves or if they go to their 'grandmother' and are gallivanting around without permission ( and I have heard stories of schools getting calls from random places complaining about their students), they should be okay with parents taking their kids away and trusting their judgment.

And as other people pointed out, Lakewood is 20 minutes away from Long Branch which is also a beach destination. And on the other side of it would they be okay with six girls booking a hotel somewhere in Utah and going skiing because it's not a beach? No.

I had already booked and promised the kids that we would go somewhere this year and so I did.
I felt very guilty about it but I kept saying that I'm sure the school would be okay if we're going away somewhere as a family, to meet cousins which we are, and while we always try to follow the rules, sometimes we have to make an exception and part of being an adult is knowing when that exception should be made and they just shouldn't talk about it.

Then the school gave out a note where they insinuate that the problem is actually if the girls go away by themselves. And that bothered me, because, make up your mind! If the issue is that the girls are running around themselves then just say that they can't go away unless it's with at least one parent and they're going away with family. Why are you banning everything when the real reason is just a specific scenario?

It also happens to be that this is the one time of the year that the kids schedules line up when it's not a yom tov. Very often the girls have a different week between school and camp than the boys do because they start and end at different times and this is one of the only weeks that we can really go away somewhere nice as a family.


Imo, the school is overstepping boundaries by telling parents what they can or cannot do with their own kids in their own homes/environment. They can simply send home a nice note reminding parents about safety and how important it is to maintain values even during vacations. Zehu. They are not society's policeman and should not be making rules for anything outside of school.
Back to top

amother
Silver


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 4:27 pm
amother NeonPink wrote:
Agree - no vacation, then there's nothing for the school to worry about. Problem solved. They can make it a fun week in school with all play and no work if they want to give the kids a break.


My thoughts exactly. Get the high school kids to run the day camp as another 1 of the major hs jobs because there are never enough hs jobs and make e1 happy. Teachers off, kids day camp and hs girls have jobs. Woohoo!
Back to top

amother
Aconite


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 4:31 pm
amother NeonPink wrote:
Imo, the school is overstepping boundaries by telling parents what they can or cannot do with their own kids in their own homes/environment. They can simply send home a nice note reminding parents about safety and how important it is to maintain values even during vacations. Zehu. They are not society's policeman and should not be making rules for anything outside of school.


agree.
Back to top
Page 1 of 1 Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Please explain to me what wanting woman to Lein Megilla is
by amother
268 Yesterday at 6:10 pm View last post
Going to Israel for vacation in the Summer
by amother
6 Tue, Mar 26 2024, 4:37 pm View last post
Can anyone explain the Israeli chareidi school system?
by amother
7 Tue, Mar 26 2024, 2:21 am View last post
Urgent: BP urgent care open on Purim 0 Sun, Mar 24 2024, 7:47 am View last post
Can someone please explain laser my daughter wants full body
by amother
24 Wed, Mar 20 2024, 12:36 pm View last post