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Forum
-> Household Management
-> Kosher Kitchen
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amother
Teal
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 Tue, Jan 24 2023, 9:21 pm
| miami85 wrote: | | I thought I heard that this was how falafel came to be popular in Israel b/c the chickpeas were often infested so by grinding them up it became ok. |
You can't grind something that's probably infested, only if there's a reasonable safek that it might have a few isolated bugs.
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amother
Vermilion
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Tue, Jan 24 2023, 9:23 pm
| amother Rainbow wrote: | No, you can’t do that if there are definitely bugs, it’s only a heter for items which don’t always have bugs that you would normally still check such as frozen fruit but raspberries are always infested apparently, although I think frozen raspberries are also not allowed to be blended because they still have bugs.
You can have raspberries if it was blended by a non Jew for some odd reason can’t remember why. |
Yes you can. The issue is eating a full bug. The act of pureeing ensures you are not eating a full bug.
From OK website:
"If, however, one is making a smoothie or pureeing the fruits and vegetables in such a way that any insects would certainly be pulverized, a standard rinse would be sufficient and there would be no need to check for insects. After being crushed by the blender, any insects present would be botul b’shishim"
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amother
OP
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Tue, Jan 24 2023, 9:26 pm
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It makes me so sad. I’m a produce lover, and those bright beautiful berries just seem so enticing…
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amother
Dustypink
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Tue, Jan 24 2023, 9:27 pm
As per the Star-K in terms of blending
“ If the items you are using are from Category #1 (rov/muchzuk, most of the time infested), it becomes difficult to justify making a smoothie from them. Items that fit this category would include raspberries, blackberries, curly kale[10] (both conventional and organic) and pretty much all organic infestation-prone[11] fruits or veggies. It would also include infestation-prone items that are pick-your-own. Since these farms need to allow people to roam their fields and orchards, fewer chemical pesticides are used, and the produce is considered for these purposes in the same category as organic.[12] Making smoothies from items in category #1 is not permissible. Even to have it made for you by a non-Jew is not allowed. The fact that you are asking or ordering it to be made for you is considered the same as if you were making it yourself.[13]
However, if the items you are using are in Category #2 (miyut hamatzui/sometimes infested), it is permitted to make a smoothie without needing to check the fruit first. Since your intention is to make a smoothie, not to specifically destroy the insects, there is no issue of ein mevatlin issur l’chatchila. This is known in Halacha as ein kavanaso l’vatel – your intention is not specifically to nullify the prohibited substance. In cases where the prohibited item (in this case, fruit) is only prohibited d’rabanan, (I.e. due the issur of berya), this is permissible.[14]
This would mean that any conventional (non-organic) frozen strawberries or blueberries can be blended without the need to check first. If you are using conventional (non-organic) fresh fruit or veggie greens, they must be washed well[15] prior to being juiced, but no actual checking is required. Unwashed fresh fruit or veggies even from this category cannot be used, as before they are washed they contain more insects and could possibly be considered rov/muchzuk (Category #1).
One important point to keep in mind is that the items need to be purchased or acquired with the intention to make smoothies.[16] If they were purchased with the intent to use whole and later you realized that it isn’t permitted, a rav should be consulted to determine if you can still blend them. An evaluation needs to be made if this scenario would be considered mevatlin issur l’chatchila.”
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amother
Teal
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Tue, Jan 24 2023, 9:32 pm
| amother Vermilion wrote: | Yes you can. The issue is eating a full bug. The act of pureeing ensures you are not eating a full bug.
From OK website:
"If, however, one is making a smoothie or pureeing the fruits and vegetables in such a way that any insects would certainly be pulverized, a standard rinse would be sufficient and there would be no need to check for insects. After being crushed by the blender, any insects present would be botul b’shishim" |
You cannot on purpose be mevatel an issur, for example grinding a bug to make it not whole and therefore batel. If you do this, there is a knas in halacha that the food becomes forbidden.
Maybe this article will help with further understanding. https://www.star-k.org/article.....ding/
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amother
Teal
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Tue, Jan 24 2023, 9:35 pm
| amother Vermilion wrote: | Yes you can. The issue is eating a full bug. The act of pureeing ensures you are not eating a full bug.
From OK website:
"If, however, one is making a smoothie or pureeing the fruits and vegetables in such a way that any insects would certainly be pulverized, a standard rinse would be sufficient and there would be no need to check for insects. After being crushed by the blender, any insects present would be botul b’shishim" |
That only applies to items which are not rov or muchzak for tolaim. Items such as raspberries cannot be blended. See the article I posted; the topic is complex and many people unfortunately misunderstand the issues at hand, leading to transgressing on grave issurim.
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tichellady
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Tue, Jan 24 2023, 9:35 pm
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in my community, we eat them after washing and checking briefly for bugs
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amother
Ultramarine
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Tue, Jan 24 2023, 9:50 pm
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A family I know was told by their rav several years ago that the best way to check raspberries was by dropping them, then all the bugs come out. Anyone ever heard anything like this?
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cookier
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Tue, Jan 24 2023, 9:56 pm
No everyone holds you can, but for those that do, the argument is this: Freezing causes the bugs to explode (specifically, per a cRc mashgiach, it makes their eyes explode.  ) so once a company has already done that, you can buy it intending to purée/blend, because it’s already a safek whether there is going to be a whole bug, and the company isn’t freezing it to batul the insect, they’re freezing it because there’s a market for frozen fruit.
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amother
Teal
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Tue, Jan 24 2023, 9:59 pm
I always wondered about that. If anyone calls the OU to ask, would be interested in hearing the answer.
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Rappel
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Tue, Jan 24 2023, 9:59 pm
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There is a family here whom grow blackberries in a hermetic greenhouse, so we're lucky. Otherwise, I don't know how one could possibly clean them.
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Ema of 5
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Tue, Jan 24 2023, 10:00 pm
| amother Teal wrote: | | I always wondered about that. If anyone calls the OU to ask, would be interested in hearing the answer. | can I email them? Would they respond that way?
I don’t want them to rescind their hashgacha, and I don’t want to sound chutzpah-dik. What should I ask?
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amother
Yellow
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Tue, Jan 24 2023, 10:03 pm
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In my community we eat them as well. Just check and wash of course. Figs are way more problematic by the way...
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amother
Hosta
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Tue, Jan 24 2023, 10:03 pm
When I was younger, my parents had a small raspberry bush when I was growing up. I would eat without checking. As I became more frum I realized they had to be checked. I remember looking carefully and seeing tiny orange bugs. I realized these berries, because of the way they are shaped. tiny balls attached together, would be near impossible to check. Haven't eaten them since.
I find blueberries not as problematic, because they are whole.
Strawberries are scrubbed with a soft brush. Stems are removed. I only eat them, when I check them myself.
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amother
Teal
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Tue, Jan 24 2023, 10:04 pm
| Ema of 5 wrote: | can I email them? Would they respond that way?
I don’t want them to rescind their hashgacha, and I don’t want to sound chutzpah-dik. What should I ask? |
You can always call the OU with kashrus questions about items, they're used to it. The OU definitely knows about bugs in raspberries and they surely have some rationale so don't worry, it won't make them rescind their hechsher.
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Ema of 5
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Tue, Jan 24 2023, 10:26 pm
| amother Teal wrote: | | You can always call the OU with kashrus questions about items, they're used to it. The OU definitely knows about bugs in raspberries and they surely have some rationale so don't worry, it won't make them rescind their hechsher. |
I just don’t know if I’ll have time to call…..I’ll do my best, and keep everyone posted.
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BrisketBoss
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Tue, Jan 24 2023, 11:32 pm
| amother Hosta wrote: | When I was younger, my parents had a small raspberry bush when I was growing up. I would eat without checking. As I became more frum I realized they had to be checked. I remember looking carefully and seeing tiny orange bugs. I realized these berries, because of the way they are shaped. tiny balls attached together, would be near impossible to check. Haven't eaten them since.
I find blueberries not as problematic, because they are whole.
Strawberries are scrubbed with a soft brush. Stems are removed. I only eat them, when I check them myself. |
My sister did once manage to eat a blueberry with a bug in it. I think she is traumatized for life. No one wants to bite into a berry and get bug.
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Rubber Ducky
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Tue, Jan 24 2023, 11:50 pm
Found this here: https://oukosher.org/ou-guide-.....more/
| Quote: | Gently drop raspberries onto a white cloth or light box to dislodge
or in open cavity the insects, then inspect one by one. If insects are found, do not use
pint of berries. Due to the difficulty involved in checking, they are not
allowed in OU restaurants. |
I recall that it used to be advised to blow into the cavity to see whether any critters make an appearance but not sure which kashrus agency said that.
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amother
DarkGray
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Wed, Jan 25 2023, 12:00 am
| amother Hosta wrote: | When I was younger, my parents had a small raspberry bush when I was growing up. I would eat without checking. As I became more frum I realized they had to be checked. I remember looking carefully and seeing tiny orange bugs. I realized these berries, because of the way they are shaped. tiny balls attached together, would be near impossible to check. Haven't eaten them since.
I find blueberries not as problematic, because they are whole.
Strawberries are scrubbed with a soft brush. Stems are removed. I only eat them, when I check them myself. |
Oy, now I'm freaked out that I ate bugs!
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