So upset about splitting the restaurant bill

ShishKabob

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 7:31 pm

nicole81 wrote:

While splitting the check is normal for many, sensitivity trumps the practice in terms of social norms. When there's an obviously large gap in what two parties are ordering, the social norm would be to go along with what the people who ordered the less expensive items want.

This, otherwise the other people are just taking her for a ride.
OP, I'd be super upset too, hugs!

hello3

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 8:14 pm

I’ve been there. I’ve learned the best way to avoid this is to preempt it. “It will be so nice to meet you guys but I can’t spend so much, either we can go to a cheaper place or I’ll gladly pay for my own bill”- most normal people will understand that.

ShishKabob

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 8:17 pm

hello3 wrote:

Not nice to be so pushy like op's 'friends' were.

amother

Ivory

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 9:28 pm

amother OP wrote:

Relatives asked if we can join them to dine out. We are tight on money. We decided to join but order minimum. We took it a step further and looked at the menu before hand and decided what to order as not to overspend while in the moment. Besides main course Relatives ordered appetizers drinks desserts wine. We did not take from it to show we are not paying for it. Bill came. As I'm dividing the tip and tax relative grabs it and says way easier to just spilt. I said I rather not. Relative says makes no sense. And too much of a hassle . It got uncomfortable and we just split it. Was 85 extra for us.
It's bothering me too much

That’s terrible! They must’ve realized that you 2 didn’t order anywhere near what they did!
Are they the type to purposely try to get away with getting someone else to pay more than share?? This seems like they intentionally tried to get over on you. It’s not ok.
I’d take it up with them especially since they’re relatives.

amother

Ivory

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 9:30 pm

amother Razzmatazz wrote:

I’m so frustrated for you. I can really imagine being in the same boat, we seldom eat out because of the cost.

My advice is either:
1. Accept it, and it should be a kaparah.
2. Address them about it, not in a ‘you wronged us,’ type of way, but as a ‘this is actually financially hard for us,’ way (pretty much like you said it upthread here.) Tell them it’s so they know for next time- if they have any social skill at all they’ll reimburse you after hearing that.

Halacha dictates if someone is feeling a resentment in their heart towards another Jew they’re obligated to tell them why they’re upset.
I really think op needs to have this out with the relatives.

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 9:31 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

Restaurants don’t always like taking lots of different CCs. One person often pays and everyone else can venmo their share.

this. When you are in a nice place the classy thing to do is have one person pay the bill and then let the others know what they need to pay. Many restaurants wouldn’t even be willing to make separate bills for one reservation/table

amother

Ivory

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 9:31 pm

Mollie wrote:

I’ll be the dissenting voice. Once you are invited out, it’s perfectly within social norms to split the check. I think it’s tacky to take out a calculator and divide to see who had what. If you can’t afford it, you should have made an excuse and declined the invitation.

No no no.
NOt when there’s such a big difference in what the 2 couples ordered
And especially since op is financially struggling

amother

Ivory

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 9:34 pm

Mollie wrote:

I assume it was an expensive place. If the money was going to be an issue then it should have been discussed before hand. Like I said, splitting check is a social norm.

No it isn’t a given social norm
Plenty of people ask for separate checks when they go out together. It happens often.
And op did say to them that she didn’t want to split the check and the relatives had the chutzpah to say it’s too much trouble. Sure it’s too much trouble because then they wouldn’t benefit!

I think it’s beyond disgusting to ask to split after they ordered every course and op and dh ordered so much less

amother

Ballota

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 9:34 pm

amother Fuchsia wrote:

I’ve been to high end restaurants and they’re happy to take part in cash part in credit card etc they don’t mind accommodating.

amother

Ivory

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 9:35 pm

amother Fuchsia wrote:

So I’m not poor but I still feel cheated if I ordered one cheap dish (because I happen to like a burger or fried chicken more than a steak not because I can’t afford it and Im also a small person and get full very quickly) and everyone else is ordering expensive steaks plus soups plus appetizers and dessert and I’m expected to pay an equal share. What you can do is at the start of the meal I say something like “I’ll pay the check and I’ll send you your totals after. This way no one is uncomfortable and can order whatever you want” I happen to have a good memory and remember what everyone ordered and I do the math on my own after (taking out calculators and paper and pencil in the restaurant is tacky) and privately message each person with their total and they quick pay me. Never had an issue. Very easy when it’s just you and one other couple but can be done with many people too

Much easier to tell waiter at the beginning that you’ll be needing separate checks
I saw this happen a lot

amother

Ivory

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 9:37 pm

amother Saddlebrown wrote:

Just curious, OP. Has your financial situation recently changed?
Is it possible that the other couple had no idea you were tight, and just assumed you were in the same financial bracket as usual?

That isn’t even the issue at this point
If there’s such a big difference in what they 2 couples ordered it’s stam geneiva to force an even split.
Op did try telling them she wanted separate checks but the others refused and that’s just disgusting and intentional

amother

Ivory

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 9:40 pm

amother Fuchsia wrote:

The classy thing to do? Classy to who? The waiter?
The classy thing to do is to be decent and not force someone else to pay for food you ordered and ate and they didn’t!

amother

RosePink

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 9:43 pm

OP, I totally get your situation.
Years ago, my non religious sister in law wanted to take dh out for his birthday. Their mother and I were invited. At the end, she looked at the bill and said, “Let’s split this “. We were shocked. To this day, she doesn’t think she did anything wrong.
Almost every restaurant type situation ends not great when she is involved, for various reasons.
Consider it a lesson learned to avoid those situations with that relative.

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 9:52 pm

amother Ivory wrote:

Much easier to tell waiter at the beginning that you’ll be needing separate checks
I saw this happen a lot

it’s weird when there’s like 5 couples

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 9:53 pm

amother Ivory wrote:

The classy thing to do? Classy to who? The waiter?
The classy thing to do is to be decent and not force someone else to pay for food you ordered and ate and they didn’t!

not sure why you are attacking me when I never said that the bill should be split. I’m agreeing with OP just suggesting a way to work around it.

watergirl

Mon, Jan 30 2023, 8:48 am

Mollie wrote:

If you go out with someone, or a couple or whatever, and you realize they ordered a side salad and a small soup (points for whoever gets this reference) and you ordered appetizers, main, drinks, and dessert, and when the bill comes they wanted to divide, not split the check, but you insist to split it because "social norms", SHAME ON YOU. That's your way of telling them that you want them to pay for your food while they clearly did not intend to, nor could they, from the start.

Kindness wins out over social norms every single time.

amother

Hyacinth

Mon, Jan 30 2023, 9:21 am

amother Ivory wrote:

The classy thing to do? Classy to who? The waiter?
The classy thing to do is to be decent and not force someone else to pay for food you ordered and ate and they didn’t!

I don't think you read amother Fuchsias post correctly.
She wrote:
Let one person pay the bill and let the others know what they need to pay.
Here is an example -
I recently went out for a friend's birthday.
There were lots of people, different budgets, etc.
What we did was, we each paid for our own food + split the birthday girls food.
When it came time to pay, instead of making a while to-do about who owes what, one person provided their card and paid.
We each let her know what we ordered, she went home, made the calculation, and told us all how much we should Zelle her.

I hear what fuchsia is saying, in the moment, it is classy for one person to lay out the money, and make all the calculations at a later point. That is not called splitting the bill.

The problem is, I know too many people who wouldn't pay up. So classy isn't always the way to go 😆😆

amother

cornflower

Mon, Jan 30 2023, 9:27 am

Mollie wrote:

Poor people can have friends and go out with them too. And if they have an exact amount set aside for this true friends will be more than understanding and not be busy judging tackiness.

amother

cornflower

Mon, Jan 30 2023, 9:30 am

Who cares about social norms?? Do you pull out a social norms checklist and make sure your friends pass? Just be kind and understanding sheesh. If someone is trying to pay a certain way assume they need to and make it as pleasant as possible for them.