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When planning your MM list, remember the kids who...
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Feb 06 2023, 11:28 am
I keep seeing a trend on the Purim threads here. People are saying, proudly at that, that they limit who they send MM to in order to make their day easier (and in the same thread they detail the 3 seudas they make/attend, the massive breakfast spreads, and other time intensive things)...

People limit their kid's mm to only those who live on their block to save time/make delivery easier.
People limit their kid's mm to their classmates and send mm to school, not on Purim day.
People limit their kid's mm to only their 2 closes friends.
People stay home and only give to whoever makes it to their house to give to them.
People make all kinds of limits.

So who gets left out?

The kid who goes to public school because of his special needs.
The kid who lives on a block with no other children (this is mine).
The kid in your kid's class who is so socially awkward, he lives near you but your kid thinks he's weird.
The kid who is at mom's house for Purim, but it's dad's house that's closest, so he never gets his. This is my son's friend, the mom called me in tears to thank me for making sure I knew where her son was for Purim, because most people left him off all together because they just assumed it was too complicated.
The kid who is home because his parents are dysfunctional.
So many other kids.

Remember please everyone, what the actual mitzvos of the day are!
Mishloach manos - but to who? Not to your closest friends. The mitzvah is in order to establish good will and good feelings. You are not accomplishing this by giving to your neighbors if it means you are leaving out the ones who have no neighbors. You are not accomplishing this by leaving out the sweet boy who is at shul every shabbos but no one knows who he is.

Matanos l'evyonim.

A seuda. Maybe you hold two. Three? And are all three supposed to be so elaborate that you are left a shmatte to the point that you can no longer bring MM the way Chazal had intended?

Some drinking. See above.

More people are hurting on Purim than any other day. If you can eliminate even one person's pain, please do.

And remember the lessons you are teaching your children when you leave these kids out, and remember the lessons you are teaching them when you remember them.

-----------------------------------------

I should write a whole other post to remind everyone to bring MM to the adults who are left out as well.
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amother
Butterscotch


 

Post Mon, Feb 06 2023, 11:34 am
This. I don’t really understand these threads and I wonder if it’s location based. All my friend in Brooklyn spend hours in the car and I’m not saying it’s easy but the kids have a great time. We go to teachers, kids friends, neighbors, and maybe some others along the way. I don’t really know too many ppl that limit the list so much.
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amother
Eggplant


 

Post Mon, Feb 06 2023, 11:38 am
amother OP wrote:
Remember please everyone, what the actual mitzvos of the day are!
Mishloach manos - but to who? Not to your closest friends. The mitzvah is in order to establish good will and good feelings. You are not accomplishing this by giving to your neighbors if it means you are leaving out the ones who have no neighbors.

Of course I’m accomplishing the mitzvah by giving to my neighbors. The mitzvah is literally to give two minim to one person. Nowhere in the Torah does it say that you need to sit in Purim traffic to give to someone who doesn’t live near you.

Personally I will not drive on Purim until most of the traffic is gone, and then it is only to get to our family Purim seudah. If you live on a block with no neighbors then you should be driving to others imo.
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Feb 06 2023, 11:40 am
amother Butterscotch wrote:
This. I don’t really understand these threads and I wonder if it’s location based. All my friend in Brooklyn spend hours in the car and I’m not saying it’s easy but the kids have a great time. We go to teachers, kids friends, neighbors, and maybe some others along the way. I don’t really know too many ppl that limit the list so much.

My kids can't do hours in the car, they hate it. I limit the quantity they can give out, but I make sure they include the kids who need to get. They can bring more to school. So yes it means I drive to blocks where no one else lives. And yes it means we give to a kid my son doesn't know really.
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Feb 06 2023, 11:43 am
amother Eggplant wrote:
If you live on a block with no neighbors then you should be driving to others imo.

So what happens, is we are out driving to others because that's us. And we miss most people, which means my kids leave mm at their friend's doors and get nothing at all. No one comes to us, no one gives to them. Thank you for punishing my kids.
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amother
Bisque


 

Post Mon, Feb 06 2023, 11:46 am
amother Eggplant wrote:
Of course I’m accomplishing the mitzvah by giving to my neighbors. The mitzvah is literally to give two minim to one person. Nowhere in the Torah does it say that you need to sit in Purim traffic to give to someone who doesn’t live near you.

Personally I will not drive on Purim until most of the traffic is gone, and then it is only to get to our family Purim seudah. If you live on a block with no neighbors then you should be driving to others imo.


You are forgetting a lot of mitzvohs. Purim is supposed to be about giving and caring about others. And remembering those who are left out and forgotten should be our highest priority. And if all you care about is not traveling over caring about others then you missed the essence of the day.
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Feb 06 2023, 11:56 am
amother Bisque wrote:
You are forgetting a lot of mitzvohs. Purim is supposed to be about giving and caring about others. And remembering those who are left out and forgotten should be our highest priority. And if all you care about is not traveling over caring about others then you missed the essence of the day.

That's the thing, you said it so well. From this site, I read a lot about the elaborate breakfasts and the elaborate costumes, themed mm, poems people write, and how they love letting their creativity out for this one day. It's beautiful and fun and special. But those are not mitzvahs of the day.

Can you imagine the pain a child feels when he drives around delivering to his friends and comes home to find nothing waiting by his door? Has anyone had to soothe their child when the day ends because no one thought of him? Has anyone been the single mom who herself gets left out, not to mention her kid?

I don't want to be the cause of that kind of pain. So, this PSA reminder and plea to everyone reading this.
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amother
Navy


 

Post Mon, Feb 06 2023, 12:00 pm
My kid's classes all do a get-together where they meet at one person's house at a specific time to do a m"m exchange. Either they each bring a couple of already assembled m"m and do a grab bag and come home with a couple, or each child brings x number of the same item and each child assembles a m"m from all the items so each they go home with the same bag of stuff. The kids are happy to get m"m and love showing off their costumes to all their friends and the parents are happy to only have to drive to one location per child.

As for parents of kids who are outside of the norm, it would make sense to be proactive. Message a couple of people before Purim and ask them if they would be available for your child to give and get m"m on Purim day. I have done that with one of my children and it worked out very well.
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amother
Buttercup


 

Post Mon, Feb 06 2023, 12:06 pm
amother Eggplant wrote:
Of course I’m accomplishing the mitzvah by giving to my neighbors. The mitzvah is literally to give two minim to one person. Nowhere in the Torah does it say that you need to sit in Purim traffic to give to someone who doesn’t live near you.

Personally I will not drive on Purim until most of the traffic is gone, and then it is only to get to our family Purim seudah. If you live on a block with no neighbors then you should be driving to others imo.


Ur literally kidding, right? No, purim is not convenient. Sorry.
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amother
Sand


 

Post Mon, Feb 06 2023, 12:09 pm
Ugh yes. Thank you for posting this. Hopefully it’ll prevent the usual posts that happen each year with sad moms whose kids didn’t get any mishloach manos. 💔
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amother
Outerspace


 

Post Mon, Feb 06 2023, 12:11 pm
I hear your point. Just one comment. Be nice and inclusive to the socially awkward kid all the time. Not just Purim. Because when you show up at her door with your mishloach manos, and she *knows* you're not really her friend and its just wow I'm such a tzedekes doing such a mitzva, the only thing she feels is 50 times more awful then the regular awful day at school.
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Feb 06 2023, 12:15 pm
amother Outerspace wrote:
I hear your point. Just one comment. Be nice and inclusive to the socially awkward kid all the time. Not just Purim. Because when you show up at her door with your mishloach manos, and she *knows* you're not really her friend and its just wow I'm such a tzedekes doing such a mitzva, the only thing she feels is 50 times more awful then the regular awful day at school.

You are spot on.
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amother
Olive


 

Post Mon, Feb 06 2023, 12:16 pm
I agree with all of your points but I also think there are things you can do for your child. Main one being, call up a few parents and say , “hey, my kid wants to give mm to your kid, is there any way we could meet up with you guys? He’d love to see his costume as well!”
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Feb 06 2023, 12:30 pm
amother Olive wrote:
I agree with all of your points but I also think there are things you can do for your child. Main one being, call up a few parents and say , “hey, my kid wants to give mm to your kid, is there any way we could meet up with you guys? He’d love to see his costume as well!”

This will work for a with-it mom who has a young child.

This will not work with the mom who is oblivious or dysfunctional or herself socially off.
This will not work with the kid who is already 10 and older who no longer cares about seeing costumes and it would be weird to say that.
This will not work with the mom who is not going to leave her daled amos and can't understand why your kid won't be happy to get mm at school.
It's weird for a mom of a 12 year old to call up another mom in general.

So, this PSA exists to BEG the women here who are reading this to not wait for the phone call. Take the initiative and tell each of your kids to pick ONE kid who is on a fringe, and put him on your Purim day list.

This thread is not just about my kid (I'm the one on a block without other kids; we spend time in the car driving to my children's friends houses). This is about all the other kids out there who cry on Purim because they are not only forgotten about, they are davka not on a list because "The Torah does not say I must bring it to them" (which actually, I disagree).
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 06 2023, 12:31 pm
amother OP wrote:
That's the thing, you said it so well. From this site, I read a lot about the elaborate breakfasts and the elaborate costumes, themed mm, poems people write, and how they love letting their creativity out for this one day. It's beautiful and fun and special. But those are not mitzvahs of the day.

Can you imagine the pain a child feels when he drives around delivering to his friends and comes home to find nothing waiting by his door? Has anyone had to soothe their child when the day ends because no one thought of him? Has anyone been the single mom who herself gets left out, not to mention her kid?

I don't want to be the cause of that kind of pain. So, this PSA reminder and plea to everyone reading this.


Most of the time when we travel around delivering mm to friends, they give them back on the spot....so we don't have expectations of seeing anything waiting at our door. Am I missing something?

My kids always gave mm to all the kids on the block that we could think of. And then we drove to some friends. There are literally only so many hours in the day. I have learned to make a certain amount of mm, not more, because if I make more, they end up being extras that don't get given out. The day just ends. We can't get around more than we do, it's impossible. And at a certain point it's time for the Seuda.

I both agree and disagree with this thread. I agree that we should look out for others, and teach our kids to be inclusive and sensitive. I also disagree that Purim is for inconveniencing myself to the point that I have to drive around all day in crazy traffic till I'm zonked and exhausted. I think it's perfectly fine for a parent to set limits and be a mentch, and be able to do the mitzvos hayom with menuchas henefesh. We can also validate to kids that yes, some of their friends didn't show, and we didn't make it to some, and we explain that that's how it is, it's a very busy day, and people had to get to to their relatives, and to their meal, and there's tons of traffic.....

I feel that we can build up our kids by giving them positive messages (that Purim is about giving, not about receiving). I sometime suspect that there are parents who project their own insecurities on their kids. It behooves us to take a good look in the mirror and make sure we are not doing that as parents.
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amother
Peony


 

Post Mon, Feb 06 2023, 12:35 pm
Op I hear you and understand the pain firsthand bec I had no school friends bring mm to me ever.
My kids are young, oldest is in third grade, and I find that when I tried figuring out who would need the mm I couldn’t get the info. My kids don’t fully chap who the kids are who would benefit from the mm. And I couldn’t spell it out bec I wouldn’t want to do any harm to these kids by having my kids view them as “other.”

So for now I just try to encourage my kids to be nice to everyone…

When they get older maybe I’ll be able to work on this together with them.
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Feb 06 2023, 12:40 pm
Chayalle wrote:
Most of the time when we travel around delivering mm to friends, they give them back on the spot....so we don't have expectations of seeing anything waiting at our door. Am I missing something?

My kids always gave mm to all the kids on the block that we could think of. And then we drove to some friends. There are literally only so many hours in the day. I have learned to make a certain amount of mm, not more, because if I make more, they end up being extras that don't get given out. The day just ends. We can't get around more than we do, it's impossible. And at a certain point it's time for the Seuda.

I both agree and disagree with this thread. I agree that we should look out for others, and teach our kids to be inclusive and sensitive. I also disagree that Purim is for inconveniencing myself to the point that I have to drive around all day in crazy traffic till I'm zonked and exhausted. I think it's perfectly fine for a parent to set limits and be a mentch, and be able to do the mitzvos hayom with menuchas henefesh. We can also validate to kids that yes, some of their friends didn't show, and we didn't make it to some, and we explain that that's how it is, it's a very busy day, and people had to get to to their relatives, and to their meal, and there's tons of traffic.....

I feel that we can build up our kids by giving them positive messages (that Purim is about giving, not about receiving). I sometime suspect that there are parents who project their own insecurities on their kids. It behooves us to take a good look in the mirror and make sure we are not doing that as parents.

You are missing that I said often, there is no one home either when we deliver, so we leave the bag at the door. Or, the older sibling left to man the door who answers awkwardly says, "oh! Yitzy is out delivering his right now too!" and nothing is brought to my kid from Yitzy. Or worse, and this happens, "thank you! You were not on Yitzy's list". The empty handed walk back to the car is sad, even though we KNOW the point is to give, not to get.... to any kid it's sad. To the kid who remembers from Purims past that he is not going to find a pile by his door, even the act of walking up to someone's house can induce anxiety and sadness.

Of course I teach my kids it's about giving, not getting! This is not Halloween. I consider myself to be a very good, functional, thoughtful, and effective parent BH.

And like I said, this thread is not about me.

This is about those parents who are not teaching those lessons. Maybe they are dysfunctional, maybe they are socially off, maybe they have other issues. And their kids hurt! This is about all the kids who need the mm.

I am not saying to make a list of all the kids in your school or area who you should drive to. I am saying to think of ONE. I think everyone can manage that, no matter the busy day.
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Feb 06 2023, 12:41 pm
amother Peony wrote:
Op I hear you and understand the pain firsthand bec I had no school friends bring mm to me ever.
My kids are young, oldest is in third grade, and I find that when I tried figuring out who would need the mm I couldn’t get the info. My kids don’t fully chap who the kids are who would benefit from the mm. And I couldn’t spell it out bec I wouldn’t want to do any harm to these kids by having my kids view them as “other.”

So for now I just try to encourage my kids to be nice to everyone…

When they get older maybe I’ll be able to work on this together with them.

So for this age, what I do is to have each of my kids think of one kid who they are not yet friends with but would like to be, and who will be happy to get a mm.
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amother
Outerspace


 

Post Mon, Feb 06 2023, 12:44 pm
I have learned to discuss a lot of this beforehand. For the child who is sensitive to not getting as many as others, when we are proactive and prepare it usually turns out better. We have talked about how one sibling may get a lot more one year because the teacher lives around the corner and its just an easy stop for the mothers. We have talked about giving and its OK not to get as many because sometimes ppl just aren't home when we come. Also, I learned from this site to give my kids shalach manos from me and its really really appreciated!

I have also come to believe that Purim is a very very deep time period and that is why there is so many polarizing feelings of both great fun and extreme displeasure. The spirituality of the day and the opposite of that feeling kind of co-exist and each year, I feel like there is something that is passing me by and I'm not grasping it. There is a lot to Purim that I don't understand. I feel like no other yomtov creates so much angst and joy at the same time. Even pesach with all the cleaning doesn't reach the same intensity (although definitely not minimizing the stress there either).
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mha3484




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 06 2023, 12:52 pm
I have a kid that does not have the easiest time socially and I agree with Chayalle. I spent years working on my kids social issues and k'ah have seen a lot of success but I never thought to put his issues on other kids and parents. If he did not get MM its not on the other mothers to make their kid give mine.

Also I can see this working with a little kid but once you get to a certain age doesnt your kid feel like a nebach getting what feels like a pity MM. If someone ignores you all year and then gives you MM I cant imagine that feels great.
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