Can we talk about this?

amother

Jean

Wed, Mar 01 2023, 6:54 am

To each his or her own.
If a husband or wife does not want to dress up for whatever the reason I would respect that!

zaq

Wed, Mar 01 2023, 7:37 am

Do anti-costume people really see no difference between dressing up as Madonna and lehavdil Queen Esther?

amother

Violet

Wed, Mar 01 2023, 7:44 am

It never occured to me that it's not tzanua. I'm MO.

My own parents did not dress up at all, but they were older parents, not that into it, and they barely dressed us kids up either. Nothing to do with tznius.

In my own community, the kids and teens definitely dress up, teens often going all out the most. It seems like most of the 20-somethings do dress up, whether they are married or single, parents or not, and with each decade of age, the chance of dressing up goes down, but there is a minority of old-enough-to-be-a-Bubby women who dress up, and no one respects them less for it or thinks they are making a fool of themselves.

In my 20s, I dressed up because I wanted to. This year I will probably dress up, but only because it will make my 5 year old daughter happy, if she didn't care, I wouldn't (I'm early 30's).

justforfun87

Wed, Mar 01 2023, 12:58 pm

I guess imamother would consider me "MO" but I like to think of myself as a regular ol Baltimore Jew. I love dressing up. I don't really do themes but we LOVE purim and I do it for my kids to be happy. My husband rolls his eyes about dressing up but then gets upset if left out..so he got a costume too. I know for Chanukah the Rebetzin of a very big shul here had on a Chanukah Sweater at the kid's party.

LovesHashem

Wed, Mar 01 2023, 1:20 pm

zaq wrote:

Do anti-costume people really see no difference between dressing up as Madonna and lehavdil Queen Esther?

Anything that causes attention to yourself is an issue for those who believe no costumes. Obviously a non tzniyus costume is a double no, a tzniyus costume is still a no.

Iymnok

Wed, Mar 01 2023, 1:33 pm

IMO davka a kiruv couple should dress up if they want to. Just make sure it’s tasteful and respectable. It does a lot for kiruv. Don’t be elitist.
I don’t care for dressing up, though I’m not opposed to it.
My parents dress up every year.

amother

Yarrow

Thu, Mar 02 2023, 12:00 am

My husband told me Rebbetzin Pam e'h would wear a cowboy hat every purim.

amother

Yarrow

Thu, Mar 02 2023, 12:02 am

My friend who ran a playgroup for 30 years always wore a tiara for her students every purim.

zaq

Thu, Mar 02 2023, 1:55 am

LovesHashem wrote:

Anything that causes attention to yourself is an issue for those who believe no costumes. Obviously a non tzniyus costume is a double no, a tzniyus costume is still a no.

. Not if everyone else is in costume, too. You may stand out in red, but not if you're one of 500 people in red. If everyone around you is in red and you're in white, who's the one calling attention to herself?

amother

Khaki

Thu, Mar 02 2023, 2:18 am

OP posted:
in my eyes, it's a babyish thing to do (as a result of the way I grew up.).Dressing up is for kids. The way I see it, kids fantasize about what they will wear, but as you mature, you don't need that anymore. When I see a grown man or woman dressed up in full costume, I kind of think, "what are you, a baby? You haven't outgrown this?"

As respectful as you imagine yourself to be, this paragraph gives the lie to your assertion. Could you possibly have used a few more expressions to show
your contempt for adults who dress up ? You couldn't even call them just childish; no, you had to call them downright babyish, over and over and over, in case we didn't get you the first time. You're like a guy dumping a girlfriend with " it's not you, it's me." He's being disingenuous and so are you.

No, adults don't "need to fantasize" about what they will wear-- they dress up because it's fun, it's festive, it's an outlet for their creativity, and in some places it's even traditional. Just because the idea doesn't resonate with you doesn't mean it's a bad thing, and just because kids enjoy it doesn't mean it's juvenile. Kids like dancing, listening to music and going to parks, too-- does this mean that adults should abandon these activities because they're babyish?

LovesHashem

Thu, Mar 02 2023, 2:46 am

zaq wrote:

Everyone is wearing a costume but every costume is different and people still spend time looking over your body. It's not comparable to wearing red shirts.

imaima

Thu, Mar 02 2023, 3:13 am

bigsis144 wrote:

I collect real clothing items all year long (none of that cheap polyester Halloween costume stuff) and assemble pirate or dieselpunk or classical Greek or mad scientist costumes, or wear a teal sheitel that suits my complexion…

So, yeah, I take dressing up very seriously.

It’s one of the reasons why I never became a Rebbetzin. I taught math, science and theater, and took my role as an educator and example to my students very seriously. My students LOVED seeing me all dressed up, and I hope I taught them something about authenticity and that there is still fun and joy when you grow up.

If someone doesn’t want to dress up, I don’t consider them a spoilsport. My husband is very serious about wearing bigdei Shabbos on Purim because it’s a yom tov. And I respect that just like I respect someone saying their personal sense of tznius prevents them from dressing in an eye-catching manner.

But truly, I really think that having a pressure valve like Purim for creative expression is important in showing the broadness and joy of Yiddishkeit.

I could have written that!
I think dressing up is fun and a creative outlet and is not just „for the kids“.
It shouldn’t be so hard to believe that some grown ups like to have fun.
I am also absolutely delighted that I am not a rebetzen and am not held to some obsolete standards and expected to stay uptight while everyone else is having fun.
I like it when people make costumes from everyday things and do something more obscure.
Many of my friends dress up like politicians, this was they get to stay tzniyus. Trump, Merkel, Gaddafi are easily recognizable with just a wig and some styling touches. Frida Kahlo and Salvador Dali can be reproduced with make up. I like it when there is a maximum impact with a minimal effort.

imaima

Thu, Mar 02 2023, 3:16 am

justforfun87 wrote:

I am one of those who probably embarrasses her kids by having obvious fun on Purim. That prevents me from posting threads about Purim being „a man holiday“.

amother

SandyBrown

Thu, Mar 02 2023, 3:45 am

I enjoy dressing up but I usually do something that could pass for normal if someone doesn’t know me. Think Israeli style mitpachat , blond wig (I wear brown) something like that

amother

Ivory

Thu, Mar 02 2023, 4:39 am

A hat or tiara is not a costume. Very different. That's what my children start doing after bar/bas mitzvah, if they feel like it.

Can I just mention that if you wear a scary mask on purim and you walk around scaring kids and babies, it shows so much insensitivity and selfishness that I won't continue to elaborate on here because I will get too upset.

amother

Thu, Mar 02 2023, 7:49 am

amother Khaki wrote:

Sorry you didn't like my choice of words. For some reason babyish seems worse to you than childish. I didn't think much into it, as I use the words interchangeably.

The only point I was making is that at first glance, I tend to see this from the point of view of my experiences. I'm honest enough to admit that that's where it comes from, and it's purely subjective.

Similarly, people who grow up OOT, and are used to people saying Good shabbos to everyone on the street find it rude and unnerving when they go to NY and find that people don't wish each other good Shabbos. And ppl from NY who may find themselves OOt may find it weird or untznius to be wishing every stranger good Shabbos. [Pls don't turn this into an in-town vs OOT discussion. I use it purely for illustrative purposes]

I live in a community where there is a strong Latin presence. Every time I meet a Latin friend, I get a huge hug. I know they think us Ashkenazim cold. We laugh about it. But it's true that culturally we are different. And when I was a kid, I was hurt when a sefardi friend told me that something I did was a result of being Ashkenazi, because Ashkenazim are cold.

Again, the point is that perspectives are often shaped by our upbringing and experiences.

When we grow up we can (and should!) try to understand intellectually that much of the way we act and perceive things are a result of the culture we come from, or the upbringing we have had. We may always still have those inclinations, but we can work to have a broader view once we understand that.

That's all I was trying to say.
When my friend called me to ask my thoughts, she said it's because she sees me as someone who always thinks things through. I laughed and told her that I actually never thought much about it. I don't dress up because, in the world I came from, only children did that. I stopped dressing up as a teen. It was not something I ever thought about.

Then, as we continued to speak, I tried to explore the topic more objectively.

The OP of this thread was sort of a rundown of how the conversation unfolded.

Perhaps I was unclear, and it came out wrong. I'm sorry I offended you or seemed to put down the practice of adults dressing up.