S/o How common is OTD?

nursemom1

Tue, Feb 28 2023, 6:58 pm

It’s a lot less common today than it was in prewar Europe that’s a historical fact. I think there’s a lot more awareness and ppl trying to help these days, not more actual cases. From my high school, I only know of maybe a few individuals that are no longer shower shabbos. I know a lot more boys that went OTD, the yeshiva education system is in my opinion unsustainable and places completely unrealistic expectations on boys and men. I think the BY system has evolved with the times a lot better and does a better job at meeting the girls needs and educating them in a way that makes them want to be frum. It’s not perfect at all but seems more successful to me than the yeshiva system of boys being in school until 10pm.

mikayla18

Tue, Mar 21 2023, 5:53 pm

I know way too many people off the derech (both single and married) I don't think it'll be the end of jewry (but there have been more Jews lost to assimilation since the holocaust than we lost during the holocaust) otoh, I know frum women who have over 100 frum descendents. I believe the statistic is that, ranging from Modox to Chassidish, 3% of Jews intermarry (obviously much higher the less frum you get).

zaq

Tue, Mar 21 2023, 9:08 pm

mikayla18 wrote:

According to the latest Pew report:

Fully 42% of all currently married Jewish respondents indicate they have a non-Jewish spouse. Among those who have gotten married since 2010, 61% are intermarried.

At the same time, intermarriage is very rare among Orthodox Jews: 98% of Orthodox Jews who are married say their spouse is Jewish. If one excludes the Orthodox and looks only at non-Orthodox Jews who have gotten married since 2010, 72% are intermarried.

amother

Freesia

Tue, Mar 21 2023, 9:11 pm

I think we're living through an interesting period in time. Maybe it's easier today for people to go OTD and people are exposed to more of the outside world, but the frum world is also not oblivious and is adjusting. We're learning better ways of educating and communicating with the next generation. Maybe more humility and honesty about questions that we don't have answers to. Maybe we'll hear less of the classic kiruv arguments once they've been rebutted enough times, and people will have to dig deeper inside themselves to come up with more honest rationales for why they believe in Torah and keep mitzvos.

I hope we will see less infighting between various factions (chassidish vs. yeshivish vs. chabad vs. modox) as we all realize that we need to work together. Maybe there will be more openness to mixing, matching and blending, taking the best of the various approaches instead of arguing over who's better.

A lot of OTD also aren't looking to destroy Torah Judaism. They are also trying to find a path that can work for them while retaining the joy and warmth of living within a Torah community. I look forward to seeing what happens when loving, genuine people put their heads together to make Yiddishkeit fresh and vibrant well into the 21st century.

amother

Stoneblue

Tue, Mar 21 2023, 9:14 pm

I have quite a few friends otd. Each one for a different reasons. I now work in high school and I don’t see the same percentages. I feel like kids today have much more wiggle room than what we had and the kids don’t feel as suffocated. Also, there are many more open discussions and awareness which helps many kids through their issues. Although drugs and social media is going rampant, kids can remain frum while doing those things.

amother

Freesia

Tue, Mar 21 2023, 9:21 pm

amother Stoneblue wrote:

Hmm. interesting observation. That there's more you can do while remaining frum.
Is frumkeit an identity? A belief system? Things you do?
How much can you keep or not keep while remaining frum? Are you frum as long as outwardly you have a frum appearance? As long as you identify within the frum community?

amother

Linen

Tue, Mar 21 2023, 9:28 pm

I don't personally know that many people who went OTD though I do know people whose observance is "lighter" than that of their parents or grandparents. I know far more people who are BTs. Of the few people I know who were brought up fully Orthodox who went OTD, two were because of personal trauma, either something that happened to them or something they witnessed, and both of them were OTD for a couple of years and then came back. Whatever they thought they'd find by being secular didn't materialize. A couple of others don't discuss the reason for going OTD and I don't know to what extent they're OTD; they profess to observe the mitzvot in a way that makes sense to them, whatever that means. Could mean "I don't sleep with married people, members of the same s#x or animals" or it could mean "I don't eat meat and milk at the same meal but I have only one set of dishes" or it could mean "I don't limit myself to the two and a half hechsherim and the two and a half colors my former community allows."

amother

Freesia

Tue, Mar 21 2023, 9:37 pm

amother Linen wrote:

It's hard to compare one person's experience with Yiddishkeit to another.

I never found it hard to live a frum lifestyle. I got married at the "right" age, had children right away, had the "right" number of children for my community (which happened to be a number I'm happy with). The things I enjoy doing and good at doing happen to be things that are valued by the community. So there was never a situation where I felt forced to choose between being myself and being frum. But there are so many situations where it's not like that and staying frum is a real challenge. I don't know how I would have fared if I was in one of those circumstances.