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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling -> Seminary Info
How comfortable are you sending your daughter to Israel sem
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amother
Aquamarine


 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2023, 2:19 pm
I meant that whatever topic they were focusing on, the primary channel of influence was emotional. Hearing emotional stories etc…
I think there’s a place for that but as Jews we have much more powerful and inherently true channels of influence, through the Torah and empowerment through learning.
The first option is easier and faster, which is why I’m assuming seminaries go for it. But the lasting change is highly debatable….
I didn’t appreciate it as a student and I don’t appreciate it now.
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dancingqueen




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2023, 2:24 pm
amother Tulip wrote:
Anyone said some kosher fun isn't ok? The problem is when this is the main reason for going there.


People seemed to be listing it as a negative and I think it's ok for it to be one of the reasons, before these girls take on the burdens on adulthood.
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2023, 3:12 pm
mikayla18 wrote:
I hated seminary. I'm a very social person, easily make friends and had family in Israel (also I love Israel so much I would move there tomorrow) and yet, my seminary was a terrible experience. Always putting down the girls (me) "for your own good" constantly demoralizing me and telling me I was a bad person for wearing nailpolish on my toe nails (a million percent true statement not exaggerated) I was accused of ridiculous things like having a boyfriend any time I asked for late curfew (past 10 pm and we were ALLOWED to request late curfew). I went a few years ago (less than 10 but more than 3) I wouldn't want my daughters to be subjected to a year of authoritarian rules. But if she chooses to go to seminary when the time comes, I'll be more than happy for her to go (just not where I went, I hope it shuts down). I think 18 is a bit old for schools to keep such an authoritarian hand on kids and I would prefer my daughter go to a michlalah type of program (still seminary but college-esque in that they treat them like adults)

I feel like you went to my seminary...
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amother
Fern


 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2023, 3:31 pm
I was in sem 25 years ago The world changed since then - Israel is not as insulted as it used to be. There used to be very big contrast between America and EY- and unfortunately it’s much less now.
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amother
DarkViolet


 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2023, 4:30 pm
as someone watching from the sidelines, there is something off with the seminary girls roaming the streets of Jerusalem.
I have watched girls in shuls and restaurants and they seem like lost souls and often they are hyperactive and talk/act cutesy to be accepted among their peers.
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amother
Bellflower


 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2023, 5:13 pm
Obviously my daughter is not in the same lane as she went to a more modern Seminary but I talk to her every day and while she has to deal with the normal, some classes are boring and some girls have attitudes, her experience sounds amazing. She had some amazing classes (medical ethics and halachah), she had a trip once a week that focused on the deep history of EY (like visiting sderot, Gush Katif) and its struggles. She worked on a farm every week, packed food boxes for the needy. Went to strangers houses in weird places (trust me I cringed) She toured different shuls and heard speakers from different forms of Chassidus, like Belz, Bostener Rov etc. She had amazing speakers come to her seminary. She may not be coming home to marry a learning guy( I wouldn't mind) but I think she gained a lot from this year and I think she would agree.
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mikayla18




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2023, 6:24 pm
amother OP wrote:
I feel like you went to my seminary...


I would write which seminary I went to but I don't wanna get your thread locked lol
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sara_s




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2023, 6:30 pm
amother Fern wrote:
I was in sem 25 years ago The world changed since then - Israel is not as insulted as it used to be. There used to be very big contrast between America and EY- and unfortunately it’s much less now.


I think what changed the most is that 25-15 years ago when a girl went to seminary in Israel she disconnected from home and learned how to be independent and manage on her own. Yes she was in a supervised environment, but she still had to make decisions and sometimes troubleshoot, without relying on her family. Nowadays seminary girls (and also Yeshiva boys) remain constantly connected to home through their phone. Every single decision they can call home about, and any troubleshooting is handled by their mother remotely. So they aren't really learning how to be independent, and the time in Israel loses it's value in helping them mature.
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amother
Watermelon


 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2023, 6:59 pm
sara_s wrote:
I think what changed the most is that 25-15 years ago when a girl went to seminary in Israel she disconnected from home and learned how to be independent and manage on her own. Yes she was in a supervised environment, but she still had to make decisions and sometimes troubleshoot, without relying on her family. Nowadays seminary girls (and also Yeshiva boys) remain constantly connected to home through their phone. Every single decision they can call home about, and any troubleshooting is handled by their mother remotely. So they aren't really learning how to be independent, and the time in Israel loses it's value in helping them mature.


Absolutely! When I went (well over 30 years ago) many girls spoke to their parents for a few minutes a month. Now-a-days, I really don't see how most girls gain independence during the seminary year. Not that that is the only reason to go, but when girls come back saying they are more independent, they are either in the minority or delusional.
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amother
Tulip


 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2023, 8:54 pm
amother Watermelon wrote:
Absolutely! When I went (well over 30 years ago) many girls spoke to their parents for a few minutes a month. Now-a-days, I really don't see how most girls gain independence during the seminary year. Not that that is the only reason to go, but when girls come back saying they are more independent, they are either in the minority or delusional.

Absolutely. That's why I cringe when people name gaining independency as one of the reasons to go to Israel.
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amother
Stonewash


 

Post Thu, Mar 23 2023, 12:09 am
amother Watermelon wrote:
Absolutely! When I went (well over 30 years ago) many girls spoke to their parents for a few minutes a month. Now-a-days, I really don't see how most girls gain independence during the seminary year. Not that that is the only reason to go, but when girls come back saying they are more independent, they are either in the minority or delusional.


I agree with this but I also see it from another angle. On the one hand they are constantly in touch with home, on the other hand their phones give them a freedom of movement that we just didn't have thirty years ago. I wouldn't call it independence but they do seem to do whatever they want whenever they want with little accountability and seem to have worldliness, that we just didn't.

Let me explain. When I was in sem, nobody had phones. Any time we wanted money we had to request it to be released from the stash of cash that we had placed in the school's safe for safekeeping and then we had to go and change it.
So every thing we did it bought or planned was far more planned and thought out than just swiping a credit card or scanning a phone. At that point in my life it would never have occurred to me or any of my friends to book a room in a fancy hotel for shabbos and go with a group of friends.

I have hosted many girls over the years and all they talk about is the trips they go on ( not part of the official school trip schedule), going out to eat, ordering food on a daily basis, going off to escape rooms, dessert tours, rope courses etc in their spare time.

Most of the girls are good girls and don't do anything objectively wrong as far as I can tell, but it sure seems that they are not here for too much spiritual growth and are constantly looking for fun and thrills.

When I was here as a sem student, the highlight of the week was going to the kotel and maybe sometimes a felafel...and somehow we also had a great deal of fun even though in some ways we more sheltered and maybe more childlike.
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sara_s




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 23 2023, 2:03 am
amother Stonewash wrote:
I agree with this but I also see it from another angle. On the one hand they are constantly in touch with home, on the other hand their phones give them a freedom of movement that we just didn't have thirty years ago. I wouldn't call it independence but they do seem to do whatever they want whenever they want with little accountability and seem to have worldliness, that we just didn't.

Let me explain. When I was in sem, nobody had phones. Any time we wanted money we had to request it to be released from the stash of cash that we had placed in the school's safe for safekeeping and then we had to go and change it.
So every thing we did it bought or planned was far more planned and thought out than just swiping a credit card or scanning a phone. At that point in my life it would never have occurred to me or any of my friends to book a room in a fancy hotel for shabbos and go with a group of friends.

I have hosted many girls over the years and all they talk about is the trips they go on ( not part of the official school trip schedule), going out to eat, ordering food on a daily basis, going off to escape rooms, dessert tours, rope courses etc in their spare time.

Most of the girls are good girls and don't do anything objectively wrong as far as I can tell, but it sure seems that they are not here for too much spiritual growth and are constantly looking for fun and thrills.

When I was here as a sem student, the highlight of the week was going to the kotel and maybe sometimes a felafel...and somehow we also had a great deal of fun even though in some ways we more sheltered and maybe more childlike.


Agree with you. But I actually think that freely spending parents money on extras and thrills without thinking twice is childlike.. and focusing on studying and the reasons to spend a year in Israel is mature..

The kichels comics showing girls calling home to ask what to buy as a hostess gift and what to wear drive me crazy. Like when are these young women ever going to be expected to grow up? It's like cradle-to-chupah.

(Off topic but I do think that the expectation that seminary girls fend for themselves for shabbos is bizarre though, and it totally makes sense to ask for family help with that. IMHO all the reasons being given for that model are just a cover up for trying to save money and give staff a break. I'm happy some seminaries are providing optional in shabboses nowadays. Finding a place to stay by oneself for shabbos does force one to grow up, but also can lead to risky situations. I've heard crazy stories about places that sem girls ended up for Shabbos. I once unintentionally went with friends to a woman a few days after she gave birth when other plans fell through. She didn't tell us until we got there because she felt bad when asked!)
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amother
Bergamot


 

Post Thu, Mar 23 2023, 2:07 am
sara_s wrote:
I think what changed the most is that 25-15 years ago when a girl went to seminary in Israel she disconnected from home and learned how to be independent and manage on her own. Yes she was in a supervised environment, but she still had to make decisions and sometimes troubleshoot, without relying on her family. Nowadays seminary girls (and also Yeshiva boys) remain constantly connected to home through their phone. Every single decision they can call home about, and any troubleshooting is handled by their mother remotely. So they aren't really learning how to be independent, and the time in Israel loses it's value in helping them mature.


This is sooo on the mark!
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amother
Stonewash


 

Post Thu, Mar 23 2023, 2:27 am
[quote="sara_s"]Agree with you. But I actually think that freely spending parents money on extras and thrills without thinking twice is childlike.. and focusing on studying and the reasons to spend a year in Israel is mature..

You are right. Childlike is the wrong word. But it strikes me every time that they are worldly? Experienced? in a way that we - or at least I - just wasn't. I also want to stress that I don't think that this " worldliness" is a good thing. I think it exposes them to all kinds of potential harm.
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amother
Buttercup


 

Post Thu, Mar 23 2023, 2:32 am
amother Tulip wrote:
Isn't it the message all BY seminaries give over, though (besides probably Meohr? Not sure which other ones if any)


Some seminaries have an agenda, and some specifically aren't trying to change the girls' Hashkafa. My girls have all gone to a very solid seminary that is known for not trying to "brainwash" their students. For example, they do stress the importance of having a Rav/Daas Torah but your Rav can be who you or your family chooses the seminary doesn't recommend or push anyone.
In general the more academic seminaries really attract the more serious girls.
My daughters also need to use their own spending money so they rarely go out to eat. If your child isn't responsible in general don't expect them to be responsible in Israel.
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amother
Springgreen


 

Post Thu, Mar 23 2023, 3:15 am
Very. My daughter is in Israel now, doing sherut leumi. So, not seminary, but still away from home. We do talk when she is free, but I can hear over the phone just how much she’s grown.
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Mar 23 2023, 10:13 pm
sara_s wrote:
Agree with you. But I actually think that freely spending parents money on extras and thrills without thinking twice is childlike.. and focusing on studying and the reasons to spend a year in Israel is mature..

The kichels comics showing girls calling home to ask what to buy as a hostess gift and what to wear drive me crazy. Like when are these young women ever going to be expected to grow up? It's like cradle-to-chupah.

(Off topic but I do think that the expectation that seminary girls fend for themselves for shabbos is bizarre though, and it totally makes sense to ask for family help with that. IMHO all the reasons being given for that model are just a cover up for trying to save money and give staff a break. I'm happy some seminaries are providing optional in shabboses nowadays. Finding a place to stay by oneself for shabbos does force one to grow up, but also can lead to risky situations. I've heard crazy stories about places that sem girls ended up for Shabbos. I once unintentionally went with friends to a woman a few days after she gave birth when other plans fell through. She didn't tell us until we got there because she felt bad when asked!)

I love the idea of having optional in Shabbosim...as long as they dont make it mandatory (speaking about my own experience)
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