HS Girl Clothing Shopping

amother

Khaki

Tue, Mar 28 2023, 8:24 am

amother Lemonlime wrote:

You are right, op.
I have 2 teens and I’m dealing with this now.
It’s especially hitting me for 2 reasons.
1- my older daughter stopped growing and technically she can wear her clothing from last year. I know she’s used to getting new things but that was simply because as the season changed she didn’t fit into her clothing anymore. So I also question myself… why am I doing this??
2- there has been inflation and prices are beyond ridiculous now

We also tried udel, junees and I can’t remember where else. No luck. Shopping is very draining and time consuming. When we finally found 3 dresses I just bought them because I wanted to be DONE. But it bothers me very much that I spent $170 on a thin cotton dress when it should have cost $70.
And we need alternations too..

I think in the future I will tell my daughters that I will buy them 1-2 new things l’kovod yt but they have to wear what they already have too.

So now that my girls have beautiful new things to wear… guess who didn’t get anything?
Dancing

If their clothing fits from last year there is really no reason to run to buy everything in the beginning of the season. By June/July everything is on massive sale and there is always tons left. Your dds are old enough to understand they can get 1-2 stuff now and then wait till the price drops.

keym

Tue, Mar 28 2023, 8:27 am

I agree having teens is expensive.
But please let's not turn it into "spoiled nowadays kids".
I remember 25-30 years ago.
As a pp poster said, zoe dresses were $150. And suits (remember those) were $250-$300. Or we got at the mall for $150 and then did another $120 worth of work to make it tznius.

I've found that the worst time with the teens is when they're going through their growth spurts because they don't fit into last year's stuff.
But that's a short window. Then it settles and we can buy 1 dress or 1 skirt and top and then wait for sales/use last year's stuff/freshen up an old skirt with a new top, etc.

Teen Boys are in some ways harder. Suits and hats never go on sale. Yeah, it's year-round so I can buy Chanuka and it last for a bit until they grow, but I literally can't get away with spending less than $200.

amother

Tue, Mar 28 2023, 8:28 am

little neshamala wrote:

We BH can afford to buy these clothes, and we davka dont.
Ive trained my kids (yes, teens too) from a young age that we dont wear obviously brand name clothing in order not to cause pain to those who cant afford it. (Can you tell I grew up very poor and hurting terribly in a class of spendy girls?) I will buy my kids brand name clothes for quality, but only if there is no obvious logo or name on it.
My kids are growing up with an inner confidence and self worth, and every so often this comes up-even with non brand name items, but just super expensive ones from frum stores, and I simply explain the situation to them.
"We can afford it, but this is pure waste. I can not condone such money wasting when there are so many people in our community who cant pay their electricity bills. We will not be shopping in these stores . Zehu."
We live in monsey ny, and my kids like looking good, but they get what im saying, and theyre happy. These stores are just not an option for us, on principle. We've gotten lucky on shein (order a humongous $900 order, and send about 2/3 of it back, still came out with loads of outfits that look very nice). Or we shop end of season sales, amazon prime, H&M, zara....
We buy cute hair accessories and jewelry, and dont even spend much. And they all look great BH.

My other (main) reason for doing this is to give my children the tools they will need later in their adult lives, to be able to spend within their means and not feel the pressure to do what everyone else does. If I let them spend outrageous money on clothes "they have to have", what will train them to have the strength not to make the upsherin they cant afford, not to buy their kids clothes they cant afford, not to make a bar mitzvah they cant afford, not to lease a car they cant afford, not to buy a house they cant afford?
Tell me why is it that this generation has so many young couples with massive credit card debt??
Why is the organization Mesila, and other financial advisors, FULL of young couples who are drowning in debt with crazy spending habits?
Its very scary.
We need to teach our children when theyre young, by example-and honestly, pesach clothing shopping is a perfect opportunity.

What grades are your daughters in?

Why is the skeptic in me feeling like your teens are either only 13-14, or like they are a complete anomaly…?

amother

Tue, Mar 28 2023, 8:32 am

amother Khaki wrote:

The issue really is the prices for just a handful of things NOW. Of course we shop sales, buy only the minimum at the beginning of the season, etc. but even that has turned into a small fortune. It’s just crazy. Only me?!?

And I agree, boys wardrobes are also expensive. But the shopping is way more practical and sensible.

little neshamala

Tue, Mar 28 2023, 8:44 am

amother OP wrote:

What grades are your daughters in?

Why is the skeptic in me feeling like your teens are either only 13-14, or like they are a complete anomaly…?

I'd rather not post grades, ive posted a lot of personal info about myself in the past and im careful about outing myself.
I will say that my kids are not anomalies, because I know other women who do the same as myself with their girls.
Its not about affording the clothes, its about teaching them for their own future that this is not a way to live life.
We apply the same lesson with the car that we drive, the vacations we do/dont take, the chol hamoed trips we go on etc. We verbally discuss and involve the kids, and I see them internalizing the lessons by hearing the things they say

ETA $112 for shabbos shoes? My heart hurts. Only buy that for them if youre ok with them learning that its normal to buy shoes for that much

amother

Lotus

Tue, Mar 28 2023, 8:49 am

little neshamala wrote:

Where do you find nice shoes?

little neshamala

Tue, Mar 28 2023, 8:56 am

amother Lotus wrote:

Where do you find nice shoes?

1) my favorite- Amazon!! Believe it or not, I take a good 30 minutes to open up lots of tabs (and only ones with amazon prime that have free returns!), and I'll find a bunch of options of trendy, classy looking shoes. You need to put in the write key words, and click on suggested shoes as well...I order them in 2 sizes each, and end up keeping one or 2 pairs and returning the rest for free.
Ive bought classy looking slingbacks, flats, ankle straps, heels etc. I mostly buy in the $20-40 range but there all prices there

2) zappos. Free returns, sometimes you can find good sales

3) DSW. I can usually find one or two better priced nice shoes, for sure cheaper than the in town stores

amother

Lemonlime

Tue, Mar 28 2023, 9:10 am

Little neshamala, we definitely don’t buy name brands. We are not talking about that here at all. We go to regular women’s/teens frum clothing stores. The prices are just very high.
One of my daughters asked to look on the shein website. Honestly as soon as the homepage downloaded I felt sick that she saw the images that appeared. And that’s with a filter! I know you can save a lot of money but there is another price to pay for that. We did make one shein order last year but all the necklines were too wide and the tops were too form fitting- even for my daughter who is a size 0! Everything went back and we decided to shop in stores that sell tznius clothing. Definitely not name brands.

I was the type who used to buy clothing for my kids at Walmart and Target. Sometimes I found discounted previous seasons sales. I can’t do that to my kids anymore. Fitting in socially is extremely important. Sure we might find a random top or sweater at target but in general it’s not what the girls are wearing. Being socially accepted for a teen is extremely important. No one has to buy 10 shabbos dresses for their daughter but at least 3 is something they deserve.
If we were living alone on a deserted island it really wouldn’t matter what they wore but we are BH part of a thriving frum community that has its norms.

amother

Lemonlime

Tue, Mar 28 2023, 9:11 am

little neshamala wrote:

Do you mind posting a link for amazon shabbos shoes?

Chayalle

Tue, Mar 28 2023, 9:16 am

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

I do not understand this wastefulness of needing a whole new wardrobe every season. Usuable clothing shouldn't be "outdated" in one year but it seems like that's how disposable our society is.

Agree.
There is a concept of something new for YT, and BH when we are able that's something we do. Each of my DD's got a new outfit/dress for Pesach (I would say most expensive was one for $160, and that particular DD has a harder time finding in her size for particular reasons.)
My 9th grader has 2 1/2 from last year (one of which was bought at end of season at 70% sale) (1/2 because the skirt fits, but the top does not. It was a matched up outfit, so she needs a new off-white sweater.) She got one new outfit for Pesach - skirt and sweater. The sweater matches the 1/2 skirt from last year too, but I would like to find her something separate (I ordered some possibilities from Shein, or we will find when sales start if those don't work out) because it's more useful that way.
There are some years she gets more clothes because she's still growing and outgrows things...even so, we buy what she needs for YT, and extras when they go on sale.
We don't just "outdate" clothes because they are from last year.
My older girls often wear their clothes for a few years (especially if they find, say, something gorgeous from Nordstrom on sale that is not so dated.)

I agree with keym about the growth stage being the hardest, and that's when I end up spending more, knowing it's temporary. It's a particular age where Zara kids dresses are too short and don't fit tznius, and they are not yet fitting the adult clothes in the mall (plus the styles can be too mature). At that age they need the frum stores, and it costs, and we just swallow and do our best and in the words of my shul Rebbetzin, daven for siyaata dishmaya that our girls will feel tznius and beautiful....

amother

Tue, Mar 28 2023, 9:28 am

Thank you, thank you!!! Everyone!

Firstly, I apologize for the anomaly label. I know it can come across as condescending. And I have no doubt that you have managed to find a circle of like-minded people who validate your decisions.

But there is an even bigger world out there. It’s the mainstream Bais Yaakov Chevra that is complex and nuanced. Challenging the social norms can sometimes result in girls who become korbanos to their mothers’ mentalities.

It is hard. I know the status quo is not sustainable. But change is going to be a slow, delicate process.

Some takeaways-

It’s ok to only buy one new thing for yom tov. Maybe two, if nothing in closet fits. Wait until later in the season (shavuos?) to buy a second or third.

Robes (if will be well-worn) can be bought annually. No need to have separate winter and summer. They don’t need to be bought in the Pesach rush, any quiet season will do.

Put a normal limit on shoe budget. Teach daughters what a “normal” seasonal shoe looks like, and what an “investment” shoe that’s meant to be worn over many seasons looks like price wise. This is not about being thrifty. It’s about basic financial chinuch and literacy.

If only buying one normal shabbos outfit, a single weekday one too for chol hamoed is normal.

Start shopping for other weekday clothing (for camp, etc) lag baomer time. NO NEED TO DO IT EARLIER!!!

keym

Tue, Mar 28 2023, 9:48 am

keym wrote:

I buy my teenage daughter summer Shabbos shoes on Amazon. I've discovered that light color shoes get dirty and ruined equally fast, whether I spend $30 or $200. So I spend $30. Also those are the shoes that they wear to camp.
Winter Shabbos shoes, I'll spend more on because the dark hides more, I want it to hold up better in the snow and rain.

My point in posting this is that as parents, it's ok to have shitos and personal preferences. It's also ok to explain and share them.

And I also strongly believe that teenagers want to fit in. But they also want to be treated like adults and talked to straight. Explain your shita. Whether it's clothing getting ruined, too ostentatious, budget concerns.
I also think teens can understand that Pesach is an expensive time and next month will be easier- without inducing massive financial panic.
I also acknowledge that if a teen can't listen to reason no matter what, there may be a deeper reason or need to fit in.
Teens are complicated.
But I think some parents have turned it into a us vs them situation. Like our teens are out to destroy us. And then when we feel obligated to spend money, the resentment builds, and I think it's possible to take it down a notch

amother

Lightcyan

Tue, Mar 28 2023, 10:12 am

We can complain until tomorrow, it wont help. The only thing we can do to change this is to find and support businesses that are working on keeping there prices low. kids example would be Kidichic and Tottini Teens I dont know. If we support these businesses they will be able to continue keeping the prices down, even if some might consider it nerdy shopping there. The frum stores have there excuses. They have a family to feed, they are supplying based on demand, people are asking for the expensive brands and so thats what they are bringing in. They need to pay rent and employees and I doubt any frum clothing store owner became rich just by selling expensive clothing. But they supply what we demand. so lets demand something different. And not by talking, talk is empty. by BUYING at stores that support low prices.

amother

Jade

Tue, Mar 28 2023, 10:26 am

keym wrote:

Yes, and suits are coming back in style. In another year or two, nobody will be able to get away with cheap Shein suits (cheap suits look awful), not to mention expensive alterations. In recent years it's actually been easier to spend less per outfit and that's probably why people have started buying more outfits/dresses. With inflation a suit nowadays will probably run $300-400 and maybe that will force people to cut back on amounts of new outfits per kid per season or yt
Back in the day, most girls did NOT get 3 new suits for Shabbos each season.

amother

Oak

Tue, Mar 28 2023, 10:34 am

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

I do not understand this wastefulness of needing a whole new wardrobe every season. Usuable clothing shouldn't be "outdated" in one year but it seems like that's how disposable our society is.

my dd told me that the reason why pesach and succos are at the times when the weather is mixed is because you need both wardrobes to have enough clothing! thought that was kind of funny. the truth is that her clothing often does actually fall apart, not just get outdated. She wants to sew up a dress she got as a handme down last year and I told her it's just not worth it.

she told me it's normal for people from our community to drive 5 hours each way to go clothing shopping since we don't have local jewish stores, I'm just not willing to but she's frustrated and honestly I don't blame her. I don't think she's spoiled or unreasonable, honestly it would be an unusual girl who is more easygoing then my daughter in terms of clothing but she's not the easiest figure to fit. I wish it was easier to shop
Sad

I think we might be ok with what we got from amazon but not sure...
even the girls who are easygoing still need something nice to cover their body!

chestnut

Tue, Mar 28 2023, 10:50 am

amother OP wrote:

BINGO!