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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Pesach
Pesach programs that cancel. What do you do?
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amother
Milk


 

Post Thu, Mar 30 2023, 2:00 pm
Years ago, when my family was at a hotel for Pesach, there were people who joined last minute due to another program closing. But I'm almost sure that the arrangements were made by the tour operators for the program we were at to absorb them.

Since then, my mother always cleaned for Pesach, even when going away. Not kashering and turning over, but up to there so if necessary it can be done on short notice.
And one year, a close family member was in an accident the day before they were scheduled to leave and they had to make Pesach in 3 days
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amother
Milk


 

Post Thu, Mar 30 2023, 2:03 pm
watergirl wrote:
Re: your last paragraph - not knowing the guy at all myself, to me it could also be a guy who is so stressed out, he is lashing out at Elan even though he didn't deserve it. We all know hurt people hurt people. Heck, remember last year with the counter cover guy? He lashed out at everyone who was mad at him initially before he ever apologized and issued refunds. This is a much larger amount of money so I imagine the stress is that much worse.


He is not lashing out at Elan.
It was a message he put out to the public that Elan reposted.
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WhatFor




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 30 2023, 2:04 pm
watergirl wrote:
Re: your last paragraph - not knowing the guy at all myself, to me it could also be a guy who is so stressed out, he is lashing out at Elan even though he didn't deserve it. We all know hurt people hurt people. Heck, remember last year with the counter cover guy? He lashed out at everyone who was mad at him initially before he ever apologized and issued refunds. This is a much larger amount of money so I imagine the stress is that much worse.


Elan posts it as a message going around, not something addressed to him. The writer addresses it to the people talking about him. The entire thing reads about him being a victim but I don't see any empathy for his clients.

You're right. If he's a victim, that's horrible and this could be a bad reaction. Based on a post after yours, apparently there are super sophisticated hackers who could technically do this. I looked at the Facebook post you were quitting and someone mentioned that if he's been scammed, he should report to the FBI for wire fraud. All that said, if you're a business, it's not a good look to threaten people to be quiet after you've lost all your clients' funds, and to show little regard for the clients who lost their money. I think most people would understand why it looks reasonably suspicious.

We talk about not trusting scammers but then how do you know who's the scammer you shouldn't be trusting when people are hesitant to question and demand reasonable answers in a situation like this?
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amother
Bluebell


 

Post Thu, Mar 30 2023, 2:05 pm
happyone wrote:
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/2178640/disaster-major-pesach-program-goes-belly-up-a-week-before-pesach.html

One in the news. Rumors of another cancellation. What in the world are those scheduled to attend are doing less than a week to pesach.

And the financial loss? Oy!

If I were in that situation I would book another program last minute and worry about the financial issues after Pesach. I can’t imagine how awful this must be though.
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amother
Cantaloupe


 

Post Thu, Mar 30 2023, 2:24 pm
The Facebook post raises a lot of questions. It's hard to believe that the issue wasn't dealt with after the first payment to the hotel didn't go through.

I hope the guests will be able to get at least some of their money back.
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WhatFor




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 30 2023, 2:27 pm
watergirl wrote:
I'm very sure. This is all fresh for everyone and I hate to speculate about what I don't know, ya know?


So apparently, the program guy who says he was scammed posted this in 2019. According to him, this is (another) situation in which people paid him money for a program and he paid the money to the hotel owner. In this case he says the hotel owner is the scammer and tried to charge his guests, even though this guy already supposedly paid him. (The guy he discusses replied in the comments.)

According to his post, there were multiple people who tried to set him up to make him look like the bad guy.

I think it's okay to post this because he wrote it himself.

https://dusiznies.blogspot.com......html
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 30 2023, 2:34 pm
WhatFor wrote:
So apparently, the program guy who says he was scammed posted this in 2019. According to him, this is (another) situation in which people paid him money for a program and he paid the money to the hotel owner. In this case he says the hotel owner is the scammer and tried to charge his guests, even though this guy already supposedly paid him. (The guy he discusses replied in the comments.)

According to his post, there were multiple people who tried to set him up to make him look like the bad guy.

I think it's okay to post this because he wrote it himself.

https://dusiznies.blogspot.com......html

Sigh. Just davening everyone gets their money back.
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WhatFor




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 30 2023, 2:45 pm
watergirl wrote:
Sigh. Just davening everyone gets their money back.


Amen.
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amother
NeonGreen


 

Post Thu, Mar 30 2023, 3:03 pm
Wasn't there a mess with the same program afew years ago?
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amother
Snowflake


 

Post Thu, Mar 30 2023, 3:17 pm
Cheiny wrote:
One would hope a businessman would know better than to fall for a scam like that.

Why are these people losing their money? Did they not pay by credit card? They can dispute the charge with the cc co.


I don't go to pesach hotels, but my boss does.
He pays by check - first a deposit, and then another check for the balance around a month later.

30k.
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BaltoMom65




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 30 2023, 3:35 pm
WhatFor wrote:
So apparently, the program guy who says he was scammed posted this in 2019. According to him, this is (another) situation in which people paid him money for a program and he paid the money to the hotel owner. In this case he says the hotel owner is the scammer and tried to charge his guests, even though this guy already supposedly paid him. (The guy he discusses replied in the comments.)

According to his post, there were multiple people who tried to set him up to make him look like the bad guy.

I think it's okay to post this because he wrote it himself.

https://dusiznies.blogspot.com......html
This is Crazy!!
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amother
Electricblue


 

Post Thu, Mar 30 2023, 3:38 pm
I know nothing about the specifics but I would recommend people watch the Kosher Money podcast that was recently aired. An intelligent and articulate frum woman explains how she was scammed out of $20,000 by a very sophisticated scammer.
Whether or not the operators story is true, it does seem like these scammers are very good at what they do.
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amother
Pistachio


 

Post Thu, Mar 30 2023, 8:31 pm
amother Electricblue wrote:
I know nothing about the specifics but I would recommend people watch the Kosher Money podcast that was recently aired. An intelligent and articulate frum woman explains how she was scammed out of $20,000 by a very sophisticated scammer.
Whether or not the operators story is true, it does seem like these scammers are very good at what they do.


Yes we saw this. The woman was on the phone almost the whole time with the scammer and thought he was from the bank. Horrible. I hope all who were involved here can get some money back.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 30 2023, 8:37 pm
Haven't read the whole thread. Hugs to all that might be relevant to.
This might help. https://www.amazon.com/How-Mak.....70213
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amother
Cadetblue


 

Post Thu, Mar 30 2023, 8:53 pm
Very very hard. But if you live like me always so cautious it's also not easy. But yes running a business is a serious thing and a huge responsibility. If you can't handle it properly don't do. It's not a joke, you're dealing with real people and must take it very very seriously. That's also why I don't ever do 'heimishe maasos'. Everything is written, confirmed, verified. no can't be bothered quick decisions, everything is thought through properly. Huge headache and very heavy but that's called responsibility. Not thinking about the money I'm making but about the service I'm offering and the customer service I'm giving. Not easy but that is the right way

Wishing everyone the best
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faigie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 30 2023, 9:19 pm
I guess the best idea going forward, is to only go on a program where u can pay with a cc.
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 30 2023, 9:21 pm
faigie wrote:
I guess the best idea going forward, is to only go on a program where u can pay with a cc.

And prepare your house just in case? And bring extra food with you in case they don't have enough for all guests?
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amother
Stone


 

Post Thu, Mar 30 2023, 9:30 pm
WhatFor wrote:
So apparently, the program guy who says he was scammed posted this in 2019. According to him, this is (another) situation in which people paid him money for a program and he paid the money to the hotel owner. In this case he says the hotel owner is the scammer and tried to charge his guests, even though this guy already supposedly paid him. (The guy he discusses replied in the comments.)

According to his post, there were multiple people who tried to set him up to make him look like the bad guy.

I think it's okay to post this because he wrote it himself.

https://dusiznies.blogspot.com......html


Just read through this, it seems he organized a whole shavuous program and then erev shavuos ditched the whole thing because of a fight with the hotel owner? He talks of the poor orphans who were being forced to pay twice but he didn't show up in person to help rectify the situation? I'm just trying to understand?

The tone of his defense here about shavuos, as well the one about this pesach I don't know something is rubbing me the wrong way. I mean this is clearly not just about him, where is the concern for his customers?
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 30 2023, 9:35 pm
I'm curious what people think when they hear of someone who keeps crashing people's events and their yomim tovim, their money, and claiming that he's the victim?
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Amarante




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 30 2023, 10:01 pm
ra_mom wrote:
And prepare your house just in case? And bring extra food with you in case they don't have enough for all guests?


If you didn't lose your money you would at least have the ability to book somewhere else even if it wasn't your first choice.
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