Do you stay up shevuos night to learn?

NechaMom

Tue, May 23 2023, 6:03 pm

Was it intentional that we can’t choose yes?

amother

Eggplant

Tue, May 23 2023, 6:03 pm

amother Aster wrote:

Vhagisa Bo yomum valayla means need to learn 24/7 btw.

Dissenting opinions say that it means you should set aside specific times in the day and in the night. Does it make any sense at all to claim that a person should study 24/7? Torah is nothing if not logical, and studying 24/7 is not logical. If a person studied 24/7, even granted time off to take care of his most pressing physical needs, he'd have no time to DO the mitzvos he's studying. Lo hamidrash haikkar ela HAMAASEH.

amother

Tue, May 23 2023, 6:05 pm

NechaMom wrote:

Was it intentional that we can’t choose yes?

No. The yes got put as the title by mistake 😔
If a mod could please change it..

NechaMom

Tue, May 23 2023, 6:07 pm

amother OP wrote:

No. The yes got put as the title by mistake 😔
If a mod could please change it..

I assume if anyone would want to vote yes they voted other.

imasinger

Tue, May 23 2023, 6:27 pm

I just added a yes option to your poll. Hope it's not too late!

In the future, if you need help with editing, you can PM one of us, or report the post.-- imasinger, as mod

amother

Bluebonnet

Tue, May 23 2023, 8:01 pm

I don’t because it isn’t my Mitzvah or minhag. Just like a kohein has different mitzvot than a yisrael, a man and a woman have different mitzvahs. It’s not better or worse. It’s different. I’m not you and you’re not me. We do different things. And it was the men who overslept and who need a tikkun. Like I tell people, as soon as I’m amazing at doing the mitzvot that apply to me and I’m doing them 100%, then I will take on others.
Women are born better-we don’t need a bris or to wear a kipah to know HaShem is above us. Women are holier and more spiritual than men. Don’t bring yourselves down to the level of a man tk make yourselves equal.

wiki

Tue, May 23 2023, 10:22 pm

When I was a teenager, my shul had learning shiurim and sessions for the teen girls all night long, and I loooooved them. Shavuos morning was the first yom tov davening that I was familiar with in shul, from the beginning and until the end. Trying to be more awake during davening than the men was something I prided myself in with a sort of ridiculousness, but I always found Shacharis on Shavuos morning to be really meaningful.

And the learning was fun, although little that I learned remained in my brain well. But the food and friends were always fun. One year we just studied for our Chumash final all night, and that was pretty good studying.

In the years when I was single and childless, I tried to keep the learning-all-night thing going, but most of my peers had not been raised in communities where there was much expectation of women staying up all night. And then my friends mostly had babies and I felt left behind in a young-person stage of life, and like I should quit it already. And that made me sad because all-night learning on Shavuos was a minhag that I had really enjoyed.

Once I had kids, of course I was done with the all-night learning. My husband was, too, because the house became too noisy for him to expect he could catch up on sleep during the day. Now, neither of us stay up all night, although DH does stay up until 1 am or so learning.

I'm looking forward to when my kids are teens and returning to the minhag. I can see why it's not for everyone, but the intensity of it made it an experience that I connected with.

amother

Jade

Tue, May 23 2023, 10:32 pm

amother Bluebonnet wrote:

I don't think anybody is suggesting that women staying up learning do so to make themselves equal.

Also - minhag not mitzvah.

amother

Aster

Tue, May 23 2023, 11:15 pm

amother Eggplant wrote:

Did you read what I wrote or just ran to disagree?
Men have the obligation to learn which is why when they are not learning it’s bittul Torah. Except if they are doing things to enable them to learn or obviously mitzvos that they are able to do. It’s nuanced and I’m not interested in writing down the whole class from when I was in tenth grade.

BrisketBoss

Tue, May 23 2023, 11:17 pm

I did it with my high school and it was really fun. I couldn't do it now, except perhaps in a vibrant Modern Orthodox setting that offered childcare all night and day for some reason lol.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, May 23 2023, 11:20 pm

BrisketBoss wrote:

I did it with my high school and it was really fun. I couldn't do it now, except perhaps in a vibrant Modern Orthodox setting that offered childcare all night and day for some reason lol.

I have never seen childcare for shavuot learning in any of the mo / dl commujities I have ever lived in.

BrisketBoss

Tue, May 23 2023, 11:23 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I have never seen childcare for shavuot learning in any of the mo / dl commujities I have ever lived in.

Yeah, but wouldn't that be convenient? Haha.

I belong to a more right wing shul but I feel like the learning I have encountered and speeches I have heard from that sort of setting have been....boring. Not my cup of tea. If I did part of Shavuos learning again I think I would do it in a MO place if I could. (There would be nothing available at an RW place for women anyways, I assume.)

(My high school was not even MO, just Jewish.)

dena613

Tue, May 23 2023, 11:34 pm

Won't be staying up all night, but hope to finish sefer tehillim over YT possibly with help from my kids

sequoia

Wed, May 24 2023, 7:06 am

amother Aqua wrote:

Silly, Fathers are not responsible for their children. They might help or babysit some times, but they are not responsible and the burden is not theirs.

I understand this is sarcasm, but it always bears repeating: fathers do not babysit their own children. They are parenting.

amother

Chicory

Wed, May 24 2023, 7:24 am

sequoia wrote:

I understand this is sarcasm, but it always bears repeating: fathers do not babysit their own children. They are parenting.

There is a nice interview with Rav and Rebbetzin Lichtenstein from 2010 where they talk about, among other things, why they believe it is so important for a father to be hands on and involved with his children, even in families where the mother spends more time with the children overall. And how this priority is important enough to compete with other important priorities such as Talmud Torah.

https://youtu.be/ygFAGBcGHbs

seven-up

Wed, May 24 2023, 10:41 am

OOT- yeshivish here. This is how we hold. If you hold differently, no need to get insulted. Ailu v'ailu. I don't get insulted when others have different outlooks than me because I am secure in our shita since it is our rav or my husband's rosh yeshiva's shita and they are both extremely learned, chashuve talmidei chachamim. If your rav holds differently shalom al yisroel- it doesn't give me a complex that my rav is inferior. Some people on here always get offended if someone holds differently which leads me to believe that they may question their rav's shita subconciously because if they were totally secure with it, they would be open to hearing other views.

We hold that the minhag of staying up shavuos night (my husband actually aims for both nights) is on the men and if they stay up the entire night (I think that means until alos hashachar but not sure) it is a segulah to live out the entire year. I want my husband to have that segulah (I need him around LOL

) and that the mother should not stay up at the expense of her husband having to return home to watch the kids and then his learning suffers or he may fall asleep. There is something in the air, with the kol torah reverberating throughout the bais medrash, that gives them the adrenalin to all night it. It's beautiful when a women learns chumash, navi, mussar but she can do that any night. The chiyuv to learn is on the men so even if she too may learn better in an atmosphere where others are learning (in my city the yeshivish shuls don't offer women's learning anyway), it is better to give the men the opportunity. There isn't a specific mekor for women davka to learn shavuos night as there is for the men. For me though, I'm happy to be sleeping in my comfy bed, getting a good night's rest. All my boys stay up too. They nap on erev yt and I am happy to have more on my plate so they can rest up in anticipation of the long night. Then I share in the schar since I'm also sharing in the burden by working harder on erev yt, cleaning up after the night seuda with less help and taking care of the kids alone the next afternoon so my husband can sleep. But to me this all still beats putting in an all nighter- I'm just not a night person. So for me, I feel like I get the better end of the deal! But I also understand that there are all different shitas so if your rav holds this is wrong, that's okay. I'm secure in what our rav holds. And if you enjoy staying up all night learning and it doesn't keep your husband home or your kids without proper care, kol hakavod! It works for you.

amother

Chicory

Wed, May 24 2023, 10:59 am

Regarding the applicability of tikun leil Shavuot to women, see the article here: https://www.deracheha.org/tikk.....vuot/

As one might imagine, there is more than one position on this.

essie14

Wed, May 24 2023, 11:57 am

mha3484 wrote:

I did when I was single but I am way too old for that now Id fall asleep lol.

Same!
I also have a young child who wouldn't let me sleep during the day so it's not the time for me now.
I enjoyed the shiurim when I was single, perhaps when my youngest is a teenager....

amother

Jade

Wed, May 24 2023, 12:01 pm

sequoia wrote:

I understand this is sarcasm, but it always bears repeating: fathers do not babysit their own children. They are parenting.

A couple with two kids gets invited out for an evening (after kids bedtime)... they don't want to spring for a babysitter, so mom stays home. She's not parenting - she's babysitting.