Why the condescension regarding natural health?

daughterofgod

Tue, May 23 2023, 6:01 pm

As somebody who generally leans towards alternative views this thread is interesting for me.
From what I’m understanding its both the extremism and the superior attitude that makes society not like natural views.

Which I completely understand. And fully agree. It makes me upset too.
I keep a very low profile and other than a handful of close friends and relatives nobody knows about my views.

I also think many people dislike natural medicine because of deep fear.

The reason I turned to the natural world was precisely because of the extremism in the medical world actually. The world has become so extreme on both ends and people tend to take sides.

Both sides are forgetting that the hishtadlus has NOTHING to do with the outcome.

Hashem is the ultimate healer. Saying a natural something healed me is wrong. Saying the doctor and antibiotics healed me is wrong too.

When my doctor would answer my probing questions with “who cares what this is coming from, the main thing is that we have a medicine for this” and this symptom is normal and unrelated to that medicine. Or the time we were travelling and didn't have access to a reliable pharmacy and I was forced to research alternatives and found a wealth of studies on herbs that were dismissed by my doctor as “garbage”.

So I would say one must find balance. And its hard for some naturalist who feel they’ve discovered gold that they were previously denied of and so they can at times he condensing.

We live in 2023 and should absolutely take advantage of the scientific advances and the medical world while at the same time understand that diet and emotional health play huge roles in preventive medicine which the majority of the medical world seem to ignore.

DreamerForever

Tue, May 23 2023, 6:51 pm

I agree that what many shy away from is the extremism.

A practitioner I will listen to is one who does not push ideas and methods onto me and persuade me to follow ONLY his instructions and to trash conventional meds. It's often the humility and the balanced views of these people which will convince me of their expertise and broader understanding. When they say ''Don't stop taking the meds, but you can try this alongside it and see where it takes you...''

There is no one size fits all. And anyone who believes there is, is not someone I would take seriously. There is value in many many different methods; both traditional and alternative. And if it didn't work for you, it doesn't mean it wont work for your friend.

Supermom#1

Tue, May 23 2023, 8:55 pm

[quote="[url=https://www.imamother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6915050#6915050][b][color=black]
My impression is that when a lot of Western medical professionals unilaterally declare that there is “no evidence” of something, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist or doesn’t affect people. “No evidence” often means that no company has been willing to fund a large-scale study on whatever the issue is. I also think people are (especially the past few years because of Covid) extremely defensive when it comes to their preferred approach to health and medicine.[/quote]

So true and so very well said!

WitchKitty

Wed, May 24 2023, 2:37 am

cholentfan1 wrote:

I think it's about the extreme views. Extremist ideas are never good. So believing in only western medicine and dismissing natural or alternative medicine can mean you are missing out on alternative methods that could help. But at the other end, a person who refuses to believe in western medicine may be denying themselves, and their family essential medicine and treatments that are needed.
We've come so far with medicine and what is available out there, why should a child, or adult, suffer for longer than they need to because you only believe in one type of medicine?
I think it's important to be able to understand the other side and be able to accept others may believe differently to you and will prioritize one type of medicine over the other. And not to force your views on others. Let others be. No one was ever won over by hitting them over the head with strong extremist views on either side of the fence. If you came more gently and said, I've had good experiences with this, or I've read this interesting article that talks about just this, you might have more interest.

ETA: Also just because it's natural, doesn't mean it's safe. There's plenty of 'natural supplements' out there that aren't that safe to take, or dosage needs to be carefully chosen. And because alternative medicine is often self administered, it is more dangerous in that respect. Whilst most western medicine is under a dr and being monitored.

I love this post.
I'm not against natural medicine as long as people are not against traditional too. Sometimes natural medicine helps. Not always.
But it's really hard to remember that natural medicine is okay when on the email list I'm on not a day goes by without a certain member sending an email about this and that problem with conventional medicine/vaccines/whatever. It makes me feel as though people who believe in these things are just plain bored.

Mama!

Wed, May 24 2023, 7:54 am

There are 3 categories to natural health I. My opinion

1. Remedies that help
2. Remedies that don’t hurt
3. Remedies that are harmful

Some remedies can change categories depending what they’re used for.
When a person is on chemo it’s destroying their immune system in order to kill sick (cancer or whatever other disease) cells. If you stuff the patient with vitamins (which generally are categories 1-2) to boost their immune system, you are interfering with the chemo! You’re not letting the chemo do it’s job of destroying the sick cells and you’re boosting the sick cells as well.

Another reason ppl are skeptical - there’s no college for alternative medicine in the US. 99% (and I’m saying 99 and not 100 because someone is bound to know someone who learnt something in France or wherever) of people that work in health food stores are just good sales people. Some of them are also ‘natural’ minded and are good customers from the companies that are selling it to them…

I know ppl who suffered years of infertility from getting ‘natural’ birth control before they got married.

I know someone who has 15-18 day cycles ever since being on a ‘natural’ birth control.

I know someone that had a stroke caused by a chiropractor that cinched his blood supply to his neck at the age of 38. (I know there are plenty good ones and it doesn’t happen every day… but ppl really have to do research even w things happening outside your body…)

I’m not debating now if whole, real, unprocessed food is better than those with all the preservatives. I’m just saying about the vitamins and supplements industry I know too many ppl who were damaged by overdosing on herbs and/or taking the wrong vitamins at the wrong times as per the advice of the person in the health food store.

Having said all that, ppl consider me health minded - I don’t have nosh for my kids in my house (though I don’t freak out if they come home w a lollipop) and I stay away from junky snacks, highly processed food, and msg.

sarahmalka

Wed, May 24 2023, 9:43 am

I don't have time to read all the posts so maybe someone else addressed this but to make blanket statements like "homeopathy has no research backing it" is patently false and ignorant. For anything you're curious about what the research is, simply take 5 minutes and go to PubMed, type in what you're wondering about in the search bar, and you'll see what studies have been done. For one small example, "Arsenicum album" (which is one of hundreds of homeopathic remedies) has citations you can review. Specifically for research studies related to homeopathy, see this institute which collates studies internationally: https://www.hri-research.org/h.....ects/
Furthermore, the reliance on "evidence-based medicine" as the sine qua non of what constitutes effective treatment is too narrow a viewpoint given that even in the conventional medical world it is acknowledged that relying on EBM is limited due to rampant bias, financial limitations, the slow pace of research, etc. Again, take 5 minutes to google it and read about the limitations of EBM.
Finally, the arrogance of some in the conventional medical world is breathtaking given that iatrogenic causes comprise the 3rd leading cause of death in the USA (per Johns Hopkins, and NIH here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK225187/)

InnerMe

Wed, May 24 2023, 11:20 am

DreamerForever wrote:

Yes, this is what I'm seeing it's the extremism that's a problem.

I wish there'd be more medical doctors who are open to natural treatments as well and use that when it makes sense, as a gentle first approach. Your point actually speaks to why for me, medical doctors can be really frustrating because often they don't allow you to voice your concern and question a decision. I wish there'd be more integrated options that combine the best of both, but I think money wise that doesn't work well, because insurance won't pay.

InnerMe

Wed, May 24 2023, 11:21 am

OBnursemom wrote:

I happen to think complementary medicine is very good. But as a complement, not an only. There are naturopaths working with the oncologists at our cancer center, for example. I love that. I want to cry when I see people declining chemo for natural medicine, and they come back later riddled with disease.

I had a very specific, extreme example about an ICU patient to show why I don’t always love it, but this is not anon enabled.

wow that's amazing, I haven't ever seen such a thing.

InnerMe

Wed, May 24 2023, 11:44 am

Mama! wrote:

There are actually schools for naturopathy.
For sure there are horror stories but there are medical horror stories too.

observer

Wed, May 24 2023, 1:50 pm

jerusalem90 wrote:

The Covid mishandling + the Medical Establishment being so gung-ho about the Trans fad, has turned many people away from the Medical Establishment just in the past few years.

And on top of that, the denial of Pandas/pans by many medical professionals, when parents see a sudden shift and know that a child doesn't just transform overnight has let many parents to seek answers and find them.

Ema of 5

Wed, May 24 2023, 1:55 pm

InnerMe wrote:

I'd like to try to understand.

I have a nuanced view of medicine and alternative medicine. I use both as needed.

Why will Imas be here so condescending regarding natural medicine? I don't try to impose my opinion on people who are strictly medical. Why do you need to impose yours?

In addition, I occasionally see the refrain how in people are "ignorant and uneducated" when they use natural medicine. And the interesting thing is that mainstream medicine is so much easier to be uneducated about, it's the default. That's what the majority does - so if I'd like to learn about more options and understand better a medical concern I have, then I need to do that learning on my own.

I first wanted to post this anon but figured we'd have a more respectful conversation if it's not anon enabled.

It seems to me it’s a two way street. For example, home birth. Many pro make awful sweeping generalizations about doctors and hospitals, while many anti make awful statements about the women who choose home birth.