Hiring staff - young vs middle ages

amother

Mon, May 29 2023, 10:59 pm

amother Puce wrote:

The job doesn’t sound flexible in the slightest.

The hours can be done any time of day but it’s at least 4 hours a day and then ideally 6 hours a day during busy seasons. It has the potential to be done remote or in the office but has to be professional, ie meeting with clients/ no kids in the background.

amother

Puce

Mon, May 29 2023, 11:12 pm

amother OP wrote:

You said earlier you need someone answering the phone while you work…. And doesn’t sound like any time of day if there are client meetings.

amother

Tue, May 30 2023, 7:04 am

amother Puce wrote:

You said earlier you need someone answering the phone while you work…. And doesn’t sound like any time of day if there are client meetings.

The secretary is the one who schedules the meetings and takes their orders, she can decide to schedule all the meetings one day a week or scatter them.
It’s not super flexible, but she chooses which hours she works every week and that’s when their are open hours.
Not going into every detail because it’s a unique business but yes I have had secretaries who work 2-3 days a week remote or 3 days 8-12 and 2 days 12-4 . It has more flexibility than your average job.

Reality

Tue, May 30 2023, 7:44 am

It sounds like you like the older candidate in this instance better so I'd hire her but...

I really think it evens out who takes off more frequently unless you hire someone who is having a baby every year.

My older coworkers take off when their grandchildren are born and they help out their kids. True it's not as long as maternity leave but for people with large families it can be multiple times a year.

They take off for their own health issues, including surgery that needs significant recovery time.

They also take off to help their parents with their health issues and hospital stays.

So overall, I don't see too much of a difference. The only difference I see is the young mom's sometimes decide to stop working because it's not worth it for them. The older women love coming to work.

ora_43

Tue, May 30 2023, 7:57 am

The answers here are wild.

Discriminating based on age and family status is illegal and immoral. I can't believe people are saying "you're not a chessed organization." Nobody is asking for chessed, you have two qualified candidates both asking to work. Neither has given you any reason to think they aren't a serious worker.

The idea that younger mothers are less responsible or more likely to leave work is a big part of why we still have a gender pay gap.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with going with the 50-year-old. What would be wrong would be picking her because you've decided a mother of young kids can't handle 20 hours a week of work even though she's telling you she can handle it. Pretend that neither has anything to do in life other than this job, and go based on qualifications. If they're equally qualified, flip a coin.

amother

Starflower

Tue, May 30 2023, 8:02 am

ora_43 wrote:

As a mother of 7 kids of various ages who is much respected by my organization for working 40 hours and having a houseful, I’m actually kind of shocked by the answers here. Is it possible that I would be respected more by nonJews who don’t necessarily love our lifestyle, than by my own because of family obligations? Mind blowing.

singleagain

Tue, May 30 2023, 8:08 am

ora_43 wrote:

OP wrote:

she [the younger applicant] openly admitted she might not be able to come in when there is no school/ camp).

I wouldn't hire anyone who told me something like that in the interview.

amother

White

Tue, May 30 2023, 8:29 am

OP said the younger has another job and said she probably won’t be able to come in when her kids don’t have school etc.

Clearly the older seems to be the better option, but OP feels bad for the younger one because she is desperate for work.

No one is discriminating based on age or role or anything. Both are qualified but the older one is simply the safer choice because she has more availability and experience. and employers don’t need to choose employees based on how desperate the applicants are, but based on what works best for the company.

OP is free to choose the younger one, she is qualified to do the job too. But it can’t be solely because she feels bad for her.
I admire her kindness but she should do what’s best for her company.

amother

Springgreen

Tue, May 30 2023, 8:40 am

ora_43 wrote:

Is she? If she's telling OP that she won't be able to make it work when the kids don't have school/camp, then how is that making it work? We have so many days off in the year, - YT, Chanukah, mid winter, pre-pesach, pre/post camp, etc. Is she planning not to work all those weeks? If so, that is telling OP that she can't make it work.

If she'd be telling OP that she'll be figuring out childcare arrangements during those weeks, then that would be the case where she is saying that she can handle it.

It not that young mothers are less responsible as a whole. It's just that some end up in truly tough situations where they rightfully need to prioritize their children. Not all business owners can afford to be very accommodating, especially small businesses. It is truly an issue and not just a cultural/society thing.

amother

Cinnamon

Tue, May 30 2023, 8:45 am

ysydmom wrote:

go with the 50 year old, you need the assistance and the young mother is going to take off every other day to deal with things. Once your business grows you can hire a young mother part time. Another thing to keep in mind is if the 50 year old is knowledgeable enough in computers and emails not every 50 year old is tech savvy, the younger the more tech so it depends on how you run your business.

Not to derail this thread, but as someone in their early 50s, I beg to differ that our generation is not tech savvy! We were around for the earliest browsers, home Internet, chat rooms etc. I don’t know anybody my age who isn’t tech savvy. And unlike many in the younger generation, we know how to actually code and not rely on fancy user Interfaces where you can just point and click like today.

amother

Springgreen

Tue, May 30 2023, 8:50 am

amother Cinnamon wrote:

This is community dependent. In some communities, many 50 year olds did not have access to the internet/computers until recently.

amother

NeonOrange

Tue, May 30 2023, 11:15 am

I'm gonna be honest and say I do consider it as a factor when hiring. But it's not the only factor. There's never 2 people, with the same qualifications and experience, just the only difference is their age or stage of life. They usually have different qualifications and experiences as well as their age and I would consider all of them.
The fact that one would have 2 jobs says conflict of interest. I've had people working 2 jobs and when something important comes up in the other job, they may need to be flexible and work more there, or can't commit to something I need because of the other job.
If your business needs to run regardless of school vacation or other days off, it is hard to have someone who would need to take off for that.
Also consider who would work better in your team. Sometimes one person just doesn't fit in with everyone else and the other would.
You cannot afford to run a business on heart. Just because you feel sorry for a person, doesn't mean you should hire them. If you feel one candidate can do a better job than the other, then go for them. Take feeling bad out the equation.
And rule 1 is never hire anyone you feel you can't fire, whether it's because they're family or friends, or because you feel bad for them.

mha3484

Tue, May 30 2023, 12:21 pm

amother Lightgray wrote:

For a 50 yr old to have all her kids already married, she's a real young, early empty nester.

Not really I have 3 boys then two girls and when I am 50 I will IYH have a son in bais medrash two in mesivta and 2 teen girls. So not a full empty nester but not a full busy house either. I cant imagine I am the only one in that situation.

ora_43

Tue, May 30 2023, 2:25 pm

singleagain wrote:

OP wrote:

she [the younger applicant] openly admitted she might not be able to come in when there is no school/ camp).

I wouldn't hire anyone who told me something like that in the interview.

I do think it's OK to not hire someone if they aren't available for the hours they need to be available (although it's really not clear from OP's posts here if that's the case, or just a concern she has) - but that's not how OP framed it at first, and there are plenty of posts just focusing on the age of the first candidate's kids.

amother

Birch

Tue, May 30 2023, 2:43 pm

Why are we not just hiring the 50 yo?
She has a ton of experience, is competent, and seems committed to the job.

In what way is the young candidate more qualified?

It actually sounds like age discrimination to me. People over 45/50 have a much harder time getting hired. If you Google age discrimination you will see.
https://www.aarp.org/work/age-.....aw.ds