My babysitter is quitting and wants a reference

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tovarena

Thu, Jul 10 2008, 11:34 am

I'd like your input. We have two babysitters. One that works 4 days a week but can't do the 5th day because of another job. And one that works 1 day a week. She's a SAHM and friend that was sort of "helping us out" (though we do pay her the going rate for having the babies in her home). Now she's quitting our one day a week job to attempt to get a full time nannying job (which I do understand her need).

Thing is, she wants to use me as a reference since she really has no other child care references to give people (she has a couple of kids herself, but obviously that doesn't help in terms of references). Obviously, I'd rather not lose her 1 day a week because we know it's going to be practically impossible to find someone for a once a week job, and certainly they won't be from the community (which has been a major source of comfort to us that at least if we have to leave them, they're with a frum woman and not just a stranger).

OTOH, she IS a friend and I do know that she's really in need of a fuller income that I can't provide (even if we'd offer her the other 4 days so she'd be full time, she wants more money per hour than we could afford).

DH doesn't want me to give references on her behalf. He feels like why should we be the ones who get her the job that will mean she leaves us. So my question is what would you do? Agree to act as a reference or decline? And if you think I should decline, how?

Clarissa

Thu, Jul 10 2008, 11:37 am

If she's a good babysitter, it would be wrong not to give her a good reference. She's entitled to work in a situation that better suits her needs, and she's giving adequate notice. How can you say no just to keep her there? I would be furious if an employer refused to give me a good reference because they didn't want me to find a situation that works better for me.

shalhevet

Thu, Jul 10 2008, 11:38 am

I think it would be very unfair not to give her references if you are pleased with her. It is accepted in any job that the employer writes/ tells about an employee and doesn't ruin their chances even if they'd rather they stay.

I presume you work yourself since you have babysitters. How would you feel if your boss gave you a terrible reference if you wanted another job and he wanted you to stay?

On an emuna level, you are not going to profit by acting unfairly. Beezras Hashem you will find a good solution for your babysitting needs.

Frumom

Thu, Jul 10 2008, 11:39 am

I think that's a pretty selfish way of thinking.

DREAMING

Thu, Jul 10 2008, 11:40 am

I think it's only fair to provide references for her (if she has been doing a good job).
(esp if she is also a friend AND you know she needs the $$)

besides all that - if she can't find another job because you won't give references she won't be very happy working for you and you don't want to leave your children with someone who's not happy watching them.

tovarena

Thu, Jul 10 2008, 11:47 am

Thanks y'all. It puts my mind at ease to know that I'm not crazy for wanting to give her the reference. I guess DH is just so nervous that we'll be left in a situation with no one to watch them on that one day. And we're not sure what we'll do then.

Only one thing, Shalhevet. Applying this to working for a corporation doesn't work. If I am looking for a new job, I would never give a current employer as a reference. And if somehow my prospective employer did contact my boss, I would fully well to expect to have my employment terminated. I think that's just the sad reality of working for any large corporation. If an employer knows you're looking, your loyalty is questioned to the point that they don't want you anymore.

greenfire

Thu, Jul 10 2008, 11:54 am

I would have to agree considering her circumstances ... as a mom she needs more work ... if it were stam she's leaving for another job - that would be different ... and she is going to find a more full time job whether or not you or your dh wish she would stay ... how can you not give her a reference shock

MommyLuv

Thu, Jul 10 2008, 5:32 pm

If she cared for your child and did a good job, you owe it to her IMO.

She needs to move on to a better situation for her.
Why not help her?

flowerpower

Thu, Jul 10 2008, 5:34 pm

If she is good and looking for a full time paying job(and shes your friend) then you shouldn't think twice about giving good reference.

square_peg

Thu, Jul 10 2008, 7:46 pm

Give her the reference.

The advantage of telling someone you're planning to leave when you find another job is that you CAN give that person for a reference. If I were to look for a job before telling my employer that I'm looking, of course I can't give him as a reference. But if I make him aware, - and one might do it for the reference - the current employer is the best reference. (unless he has his own agenda ie. making sure you dont get the job.)

tovarena

Fri, Jul 11 2008, 8:51 am

boysmommy wrote:

But if I make him aware, - and one might do it for the reference - the current employer is the best reference. (unless he has his own agenda ie. making sure you dont get the job.)

As I mentioned previously, in most professional jobs I've ever seen, telling your boss that you're looking for a new job would be a pretty bad idea. It's just not done - unless there's a clear reason - I.e. everyone knows the current employer is about to go out of business. Most bosses and most companies want to believe that their employees are SO loyal that they'd never even think of looking elsewhere.

I had a prospective boss once who found my resume on monster. She emailed me, we ended up scheduling an interview and I ultimately took the job. Maybe a year or so later she found that same resume on monster again and asked very suspiciously if I was looking. I sort of looked at her quizzically because I wasn't looking and I really wasn't even sure why she'd be finding my resume out there. Until I realized that unless you actually deactivate your resume, it stays active. So I said to her, "Has the resume you saw been updated with THIS job?" When she responded no, I mentioned that obviously then it must just still be the old resume that I never actually deactivated because if I was actively looking, it would actually have my latest work history on it. Her response was basically that she just wanted to make sure I wasn't looking. And I can tell you that's just not the minority opinion. Bosses want you to never leave until THEY tell you it's time to go (suddenly without warning).

I was even in a situation once where my boss told me I should probably look for a new job (the company had just experienced a hostile takeover and might not have had long to live - he knew I was the primary breadearner) and even then I would never have presumed to have the chutzpa to ask him for a reference.

Well, regardless, I gave her the good reference and she got the job. Confused

Sigh...

Okay, now which one of you wants to help me find a one day a week babysitter? Mr. Green

YALT

Fri, Jul 11 2008, 8:58 am

She has a right to change to a job that works better for her.
You have the right to have a babysitter that caters to your needs.
If she's really good, why don't you hire her and get rid of your other babysitter.
You may feel bad dropping the other, however, you need certain hours, which she can't give. That puts you into a dilemna, which you will be facing again shortly. So, why not hire this frum friend?

RachelEve14

Fri, Jul 11 2008, 8:58 am

Tovarena, you owe her a reference and you are comparing apples with oranges. Even in the corporate world, if she is leaving a PT job for a FT one it is a differnt situation. The equivalent would be if you worked 3 days a week, and you told your employer you really need full time and he said sorry, no full time hours, so you went to another job that was full time and listed him as a reference.It's not the same as stam leaving a job. She needs more work than you are wiling to give her, and she did a good job for you, so even though it will stink for you, the right thing to do is help her get another job.

freidasima

Fri, Jul 11 2008, 8:59 am

Yalt I like your solution...makes a lot of sense...

tovarena

Fri, Jul 11 2008, 9:21 am

YALT wrote:

If she's really good, why don't you hire her and get rid of your other babysitter.
You may feel bad dropping the other, however, you need certain hours, which she can't give. That puts you into a dilemna, which you will be facing again shortly. So, why not hire this frum friend?

First of all they're both frum and they're both friends. However, we did kick around the idea of offering her full time work (even though there are benefits for the kids' comfort at the 4-day-a-week sitter - better physical setup and whatnot), but as I stated up at the top...

tovarena wrote:

(even if we'd offer her the other 4 days so she'd be full time, she wants more money per hour than we could afford).

We are already stretched beyond our limit in what we can afford for day care. And please don't bash me for working when we can't afford day care. I make way more than I am paying out but we were already stretched thin to begin with... And she was offered $5 an hour more than I can pay. So that's it. End of story.

BTW, I don't wish her any ill will AT ALL. It feels as though you are all thinking that I'm saying she should be chained to me for life. Not the case. I was just asking for opinions to make sure that I wasn't nuts in giving her the reference to begin with because DH totally thought I was and was a bit annoyed that I was planning on it because it will now probably mean bringing a non-Jew into our house one day a week that he's REALLY uncomfortable with.

square_peg

Fri, Jul 11 2008, 10:59 am

tovarena wrote:

boysmommy wrote:

But if I make him aware, - and one might do it for the reference - the current employer is the best reference. (unless he has his own agenda ie. making sure you dont get the job.)

Few reasons I can come up with
* not being paid enough, they can't afford to give you a raise
* commute is too long
* looking for something p/t or something more f/t

tovarena

Fri, Jul 11 2008, 11:40 am

boysmommy wrote:

Few reasons I can come up with
* not being paid enough, they can't afford to give you a raise
* commute is too long
* looking for something p/t or something more f/t

Sorry, but I still beg to differ. Maybe our experience is with different types of employers. All of my experience is with large corporations - we're talking 500+ employees - in just a couple of industries, so maybe it's different with smaller employers or maybe in a different industry, don't know...

Pay - Assuming they're happy with you, most large corporations are going to pay the minimum amount that they think you'll stay for. They can generally afford more - it's just a matter of the game of bluff. And if you decide it's not enough and you do leave for a better paying job, they're generally not too happy about it.
Commute - Unless you moved in the interim or the company itself moved, most employers would say you knew that before you took the job so would not consider it a "good" reason to quit.
Hours - Switching P/T to F/T or vice versa, might be the one time that I can see that you'd be likely to be quitting on pretty good terms as they may just not have that option available for you.

But even quitting on good terms, in many cases, does not mean that you're going to be able to get a positive reference from that boss. Generally if they want you to continue working there, their POV will be that they've spent ample bucks on training you and waiting for you to come up to speed and will have to spend yet more bucks and time to train your replacement. It's also just a hassle for the person who will be hiring your replacement - likely your direct boss. So they're still annoyed and not too likely to act as a reference. The attitude is usually, gezunter heit, go, but don't ask me for help in going.

Though, actually, it's a somewhat academic argument as more and more HR departments, at least where I live, are telling management that they may not give a reference under any circumstance. The only reference will be directly from HR and they'll generally only confirm dates employed. I've come across this now by multiple employers.

octopus

Fri, Jul 11 2008, 11:46 am

hmmmm... not that I discussed with my dh but if you were local, I might consider doing something like that in my own home.just babysit once a week. Although I don't know how much you pay, or for how many hours it is for. but I might consider....that is if you are interested in sharing details...if my dh agrees to it..

tovarena

Fri, Jul 11 2008, 11:50 am

happy2BaMommy wrote:

I PMed you.

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