My husbands job dilema

Seraph

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 8:29 am

Moishe has a fish farm, very profitable and popular, but out in the middle of nowhere. He decided to open a branch of his farm, a store in the city to sell what he grows on his farm.
Moishe hired my husband, who has been managing the store for the past year.
My husband enjoyed working at the store, but as Hashem decided, the store didnt do well. (Not my husbands fault, but rather, no one even walked in some days because they've been doing heavy construction on the street, and will continue for the next 2 years... so the boss decided he's closing down the store.
And wants my husband to work in the farm.
Now the thing is this:
My husband really doesnt like Moishe, especially not as a boss, and especially not in close quarters. When he was working at the farm occasionally, my husband had a tough time as the boss really treated him not so nicely, really overworking him, etc... But my husband would say "its only temporary." But now its not, its more permanent because the store is closing.
Also, the farm is much further out, requiring my husband to travel much more, traveling at least 1.5 hours each way. So to do that on a regular basis is just hard.
So my husband said he wants to look for a new job.

However, my husband isnt the best salesman, doesnt have sales personality. However, he knows his stuff, and his boss knows that, and thats why he keeps him. He also has known the boss for years, which is why the boss hired him. It probably won't be so easy for him to find another job, and probably not so easy to keep it, once they see he's really not sales-go-gettum personality. (Lest anyone think I'm belittling him, I'm not. I am glad my husband has the personality he has, being a refined, honest person, and not a "I'll lie trick and do anything I can to make as much money off you as possible.")
Also, he's just been there a year now. We would like to buy a house in the near future (within the next year, iy'h), and when my husband was looking into mortgages he was told that he needs to have had a steady job for the past year or more before they'll consider his mortgage application. So now its been a year, and chaval to have to start afresh, for another year, before they'll consider us for a mortgage. If my husband wants to find a new job, maybe he should hold out here where he doesnt like it until we buy, and then look for a new job with a better boss...
Additionally, when you start a new job, you start from fresh in terms of pay, I'm assuming. My husband is working here long enough that he can realistically ask for a raise. Chaval to waste that and have to start a new job with minimum wage.

Speaking of which, my husband doesnt know if he has the right to ask for a raise. He said especially since they closed down the store from not doing well there, how can he ask for more money now... On the other hand, I think that if he has to spend so much time traveling he should be getting paid more for the hours he's there... However, he said he was hired at such and such a price, if he doesnt like it, he should look for a new job, as those were the terms of the job. My husband said that if he asks for a raise, they might look at it as an opportunity to fire him.
Do you think my husband should ask for a raise? And if so, a) how do I convince him that he should ask for a raise (which we could really do with now financially) and b) how do you ask for a raise? What do you say? How do you approach boss? Especially if its not the easiest to get along with boss...

Mrs Bissli

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 9:31 am

Seraph, it must be a tough decision for you and your husband. Just my 2cents...

1. "Fish is his passion" So it sounds like a trade off between his passion (good) vs whether he/you
can put up with the boss's personality (not good). Which is more important--or less stressful?
Can he find another thing that he can like, if not totally passionate about?

2. Personality--you don't have to be a pushy sales-type to be a good salesperson.
I think the qualification for good salesman (or a business person) is who understands
the merchandise and the customers.

3. "year of misery for mortgage". I know some people think "it's only work"... but would he be
too stressed outside of work and make his/your life miserable, chas veshalom?
Life is too precious and too short--there must be a way of making parnassa where he can
have more positive things.

4. There's absolutely nothing wrong asking around friends... so many people I know land the jobs
that way. (and that's in "polite" England where you need to be introduced properly before
starting conversations with strangers Wink

!)

Wishing all the beracha and hatzlacha. Good luck!

Ruchel

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 9:31 am

I recognize stuff we went through or my husband told me about in your story. He also had a boss that was demanding and all, for a not so good salary (for what was asked, and since he was nice he was often the one selected to play chauffeur, confide in, vent to, etc!). And when he moved here to marry me, the boss proposed he could be a commercial paid by sale... I said NOOOO. BH.

Quote:

When he was working at the farm occasionally, my husband had a tough time as the boss really treated him not so nicely, really overworking him, etc... But my husband would say "its only temporary." But now its not, its more permanent because the store is closing.

However, he knows his stuff, and his boss knows that, and thats why he keeps him.

Can he ask for better treatment without saying it like this? for example, they say how many hours he must do in his contract, and then he says he must leave? or for better pay?
A worker with a passion is rare and precious, even more if on top of that he's knowledgeable.

Quote:

Also, the farm is much further out, requiring my husband to travel much more, traveling at least 1.5 hours each way.

Yes, it is hard. 3 hours a day is really the max. imho, and for many it's too much, although if he uses the time to learn he gains time on his day schedule. Dh did that when he travelled to Paris to work (and he had "only" abt 45 mins each way).
If his learning is including at least partially in his transportation, maybe he can have enough sleep and family time. You need to count.

Quote:

However, my husband isnt the best salesman, doesnt have sales personality.
He also has known the boss for years, which is why the boss hired him. It probably won't be so easy for him to find another job, and probably not so easy to keep it, once they see he's really not sales-go-gettum personality. (Lest anyone think I'm belittling him, I'm not. I am glad my husband has the personality he has, being a refined, honest person, and not a "I'll lie trick and do anything I can to make as much money off you as possible.")

I see what you mean. I feel like that to. I would be a much better commercial because he's the eidel one...
But can he push himself to be more energetic and convincing, while of course caring for the buyer's best interest, etc?
My dh preferred just dropping the stuff. But then he was without a job for months and months, and we could do it...

Quote:

Also, he's just been there a year now. We would like to buy a house in the near future (within the next year, iy'h), and when my husband was looking into mortgages he was told that he needs to have had a steady job for the past year or more before they'll consider his mortgage application. So now its been a year, and chaval to have to start afresh, for another year, before they'll consider us for a mortgage. If my husband wants to find a new job, maybe he should hold out here where he doesnt like it until we buy, and then look for a new job with a better boss...

Oysh. That's difficult.
I know it's kinda losing money, but would you rent? like to see if you like the place enough?
Here for renting they ask for 3 months straight of working only.

Quote:

Additionally, when you start a new job, you start from fresh in terms of pay, I'm assuming. My husband is working here long enough that he can realistically ask for a raise. Chaval to waste that and have to start a new job with minimum wage.

experience can count.

Quote:

Speaking of which, my husband doesnt know if he has the right to ask for a raise. He said especially since they closed down the store from not doing well there, how can he ask for more money now...

My mom who also works as the human resources manager in her firm, told me the worker asks, the boss says no, yes, or yes but less.
Here, she says, every year the boss calls you to discuss the past year and there you can introduce the topic... it's made for that (among other things).

Now, this is Europe and I would hate to say something not done in Israel.

Seraph

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 9:41 am

ruchel, we currently rent and are paying more for rent than we would be for a monthly mortgage, which is why we want to buy. we've been here 2 years already, we already know we like the place.
my husband learns on the bus already...
miss bissli, I've posted a thread on this topic way back, but my husband doesnt have many qualifications. he didnt have much of an education, and doesnt have the go-getter type of personality that often makes up for it in the working world. he knows fish inside and out and thats why he works here, and he knows people, and the customers like that about him. he could possibly work in something else, but he'd need to take courses for that and we dont have the money for him to take off work temporarily to learn a new vocation.

Starhavah

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 9:49 am

shalhevet wrote:

1. If he's not the sales type, why doesn't he do something else?

Seraph wrote:

1.fish is his passion. he doesnt have many qualifications.

Then he should do something in the fish industry. Would he be a good buyer for a fish restaurant or work on someone else's fish farm? There are many things he can do in this industry that do not involve sales directly.

If he was the store manager and he "does not have a sales personality" he may have had a part in the failure of the store. Good sales is just good customer service. A good sales person does not "... lie trick and do anything I can to make as much money off you as possible." A good salesperson sees a need and offers a product that can fill that need. Are there liar, cheater sales people, sure; but the customer usually winds up feeling cheated pretty quickly thereafter and resenting the business. They then spread the word to friends and relatives not to visit that place of business. Good sales make the customer want to come back again and again.

shalhevet wrote:

2. Taking this job and looking for something else aren't mutually exclusive. He can start doing this and meanwhile look around.

I agree with that statement and yes, that is what I would do. You are always in a better position when looking for a job if you can honestly state that you are on good terms with your current boss and still employed. Many bosses assume that if you are out of work there is a good reason for it and it is probably your fault. I don't, but my interviewers do.

Remember interviewing for jobs is a sales job too. The product you are selling is yourself.

shalhevet wrote:

3. I don't think it's worth a year of misery for the mortgage.

Seraph wrote:

3. u think its worth paying for another whole year more money for rent than we would be spending on a mortgage?

I think that shalhevet is saying that your DH should look for another job rather than wait to get the mortgage and then start looking.

I have a few thoughts on this:

Pro-look for a new job then buy a home:
If you get a house at this salary and then DH finds a job he likes more but it pays less (or the boss let's him go and his next job pays less) you will be locked into a mortgage payment that is too big for your salary. This happened to my DH. We just finally recovered from this financially and only because DH was injured at work a year later and we were able to sue. We used the settlement to pay off the 2 years of debt we accumulated while DH was making 25% less than his previous job.

Pro-Keep the current job buy the home and then look for a new job:
Looking for a home can brighten DH's day while he is working at a job he dislikes or with a boss he dislikes. I had a job I hated once, but it paid really well. I kept it until our first mortgage was in place and then started looking for a new job. The salary looked good on the mortgage application, once I had the mortgage I could afford to take something for less money or that was less stable.

Asking for a raise:
I have never been able to do this. Dh does it. I am always afraid that they will use it as an excuse to fire me. DH knows that his employer needs him more than he needs the employer. DH is very good at what he does (he is a computer programmer).

Just my 2 cents,

Good luck making your decisions.

Starhavah

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 9:59 am

Oh I forgot, if you go ahead and ask for a raise the most effective way to do it is to present the boss with a list of reasons that the boss should give the raise based on how DH helped the business.

Your boss does not really care that your gas costs are going up. So are the bosses.

Make a list of all of DH's accomplishments at his job like:

raised sales 5% per month at the store before the construction started.

brought in an average of 1000 NIS per month more than last manager

trained store employees himself on the X of fish, lowering complaints made by customers from 10 complaints per month to 1 complaint per month

Solved Mrs. X's ongoing issue with a store employee changing a dissatisfied customer to a loyal satisfied customer.

You get the idea. By writing these out on paper he will feel armed to go into the meeting asking for the raise with the confidence of someone who deserves a raise. Also he can leave the paper with the boss if the boss says let me think it over.

Good luck.

Seraph

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 12:38 pm

Starhavah wrote:

This is a good idea... only, my husband was the only one who ever worked in the store. No coworkers. (Not really anyhow, he had full run of the store.)
Construction was right from the start. So theres no before and after construction.
And what I meant was not sales personality is he is a very aidel, refined (South African typical, iykwim) guy. Customers liked him. He brought steady customers. He is a hard worker. Very knowledgeable. Made sales when customers came in.
However, he (unlike his boss) wont try to convince someone that he needs the 1000 shekel fish tank when there is a perfectly good one for 500. He does whats best for the customer, and not neccesarily for the store. Honesty is his policy. Thats what I mean about not being sales type.
(Btw, its fish as in fish tanks and pet fish, not food fish.)

RachelEve14

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 11:36 pm

Oh that type of fish Smile

I have a passion for those fish too, we just got a new tank.

Serph, it sounds a lot like my dh's situation. It's a classic what you know vs. what you don't. Dh is in a low paying job, he likes his job well enough now (didn't in the past but a new boss). He barely makes over the minimum wage though. So we go back and forth over when a good time to switch jobs would be. If your dh can work with this guy for a year, it might be good to settle in & get a house. If it's going to make him really sick and stressed out (my dh's last boss was abusive, lucky his higher up boss fired him), then don't do it. It's not worth his health, the stress, etc. It's hard when you are alone a lot more hours b/c of a commute, but it's not the end of the world. Dh thought about changing jobs last year, but it wasn't a good time with me expecting a baby, etc. We needed the flexability more than the extra money. My dh is like yours too. Sweet guy, knows his job really well, but no skills in other areas, no college, and long term not a lot of potential for more income. If your dh is really specialized and your boss really like him, it doesn't hurt for him to politely renegotiate his contract. If before he was in a store and now he's working in the farm, it seems like a good time to sit down with Moshe and discuss what the job will entail and how much it will be paid.