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Tamiri




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 02 2008, 5:50 am
What about in Yemen? Though they were respected and all that, there were still rules to keep the Jews downtrodden: not building above a certain height, limitations on occupations. What planet are some of you "historians" from?
I believe the same applied to the North African Jews, to different extents.
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sarahd




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 02 2008, 6:02 am
I said pogroms, as in what was prevalent in Russia in the 1800-1900s. I didn't say Jews were not downtrodden or persecuted. There's a difference between not being allowed to build your shul as high as you'd like and being butchered, raped and exiled every couple of years. Jews in N. Africa were in golus, no one's denying that, but they were able to stay where they were till the state was established.

Baba, could you clarify the practical difference between a trigger and a cause?
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baba




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 02 2008, 6:06 am
One is the actual cause, the other is an excuse. And there were massacres. One example, June 1941, Bagdad.
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shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 02 2008, 8:15 am
Zionism, and the Arab backlash, didn't begin in 1948. The practical Jewish dreams of a Jewish state in Palestine existed from the time of the Balfour Declaration in 1917, and Zionism goes back to the Dreyfus trial. So a massacre in 1941 exactly proves the point.
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meirav




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 02 2008, 8:18 am
Thank you, Shalhevet.

I pmed you just a minute ago to please respond to this thread.
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meirav




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 02 2008, 8:21 am
Basically, there are progroms/attacks before and after the founding of the Jewish state.

So what exactly did the Jewish State do except for importing millions of Russian non-jews?
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egam




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 02 2008, 12:47 pm
Tamiri wrote:

Chabad at 770 has plenty of able-bodied men. Let THEM storm Chabad houses under seige. After all, they are ligitimate and Israel is, supposedly, not.


Am I the only one who is bothered by above statement? I don't know if bothered even the right word. Hurt. All achdus of the last few days just went out the window.
Mind you that Chabad does recognize Israel, that I've seen plenty of Chabad boys serving. I'm not saying that Israel should've sent troops to India. I'm upset about this whole attitude, lets Chabad, or chassidim, or Mexicans (there was a lady from Mexico) take care of their own problems.
Please remember that this young couple did take care of everybody, including lots of backpackers just out of Israeli army.

I usually don't post on such heated topics, but I just had to get it out now.
And as a side note, my DH and DS strongly believe that all boys (not girls) should serve in Israeli Army.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 02 2008, 1:05 pm
dainty diva wrote:
What my rebbe says? Pure instigation, that's all! All through the yrs. yidden lived peacefully side by side w/the arabs. Until the zionists came about, claiming land, displacing arabs, so on and so forth....

Does he realize that full-time yeshiva students have never been required to serve in the Israeli army?
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bandcm




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 02 2008, 6:53 pm
egam wrote:
Tamiri wrote:

Chabad at 770 has plenty of able-bodied men. Let THEM storm Chabad houses under seige. After all, they are ligitimate and Israel is, supposedly, not.


Am I the only one who is bothered by above statement? I don't know if bothered even the right word. Hurt. All achdus of the last few days just went out the window.
Mind you that Chabad does recognize Israel, that I've seen plenty of Chabad boys serving. I'm not saying that Israel should've sent troops to India. I'm upset about this whole attitude, lets Chabad, or chassidim, or Mexicans (there was a lady from Mexico) take care of their own problems.
Please remember that this young couple did take care of everybody, including lots of backpackers just out of Israeli army.

I usually don't post on such heated topics, but I just had to get it out now.
And as a side note, my DH and DS strongly believe that all boys (not girls) should serve in Israeli Army.


To add, that the able-bodied men studying at 770 are preparing to go to places like Mumbai to take care of YOUR son when he leaves the army, takes his tour, and needs kosher food.
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lubaussie




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 02 2008, 7:43 pm
bandcm wrote:
egam wrote:
Tamiri wrote:

Chabad at 770 has plenty of able-bodied men. Let THEM storm Chabad houses under seige. After all, they are ligitimate and Israel is, supposedly, not.


Am I the only one who is bothered by above statement? I don't know if bothered even the right word. Hurt. All achdus of the last few days just went out the window.
Mind you that Chabad does recognize Israel, that I've seen plenty of Chabad boys serving. I'm not saying that Israel should've sent troops to India. I'm upset about this whole attitude, lets Chabad, or chassidim, or Mexicans (there was a lady from Mexico) take care of their own problems.
Please remember that this young couple did take care of everybody, including lots of backpackers just out of Israeli army.

I usually don't post on such heated topics, but I just had to get it out now.
And as a side note, my DH and DS strongly believe that all boys (not girls) should serve in Israeli Army.


To add, that the able-bodied men studying at 770 are preparing to go to places like Mumbai to take care of YOUR son when he leaves the army, takes his tour, and needs kosher food.


Yes

And, to add, the oldest continuously operating Tzedakah organisation in Israel was founded by the Alter Rebbe (Colel Chabad) in 1788. For over 200 years Chabad was supporting the Land of Israel, long before 1948, long before most people bothered with it, back when barely anyone was interested in supporting the Land. The Alter Rebbe personally invested in Colel Chabad and was one of the very few - and certainly one of the few gedolim - of his time to support E"Y.


Quote:
if you believe that yeshiva bochurs sitting around studing Torah provide us with significant protection



Look, I didn't bring in the Mumbai situation, OP did. So I'll draw on it. In this situation, who were the ones who sacrificed their lives? Who actually died here? Who gave up their lives lsheim shamayim, while serving their fellow Jews? Yes, the Chabad shluchim who "sat around" dedicating their lives not only to their own Torah learning but to bringing Torah into other Jews' lives. So don't bring in this situation to prove that anyone who learns Torah instead of physically fighting for their country is just "sitting around" expecting the Army to save their lives, because this situation proves that false.


Look, this is not a competition about who is more heroic. It's about accepting that everyone has different duties. Some go out to fight on the main front. Some fight the spiritual battle. Almost like Yissachar and Zevulun. Neither was more important than the other, but both are crucial for the other. We need to make a keli to recieve Hashem's blessings, and that involves fighting. But we also need to deserve Hashem's blessings in the first place. And that involves doing His will, which is to study His Torah.
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