Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Parenting our children
Raising a generation of future husbands
Previous  1  2



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

Tefila




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 12 2006, 4:21 pm
Though more importantly then teaching them conc helping out which doesn't mean them, taking over nor being a slave, but learning basic skills. In addition
I would like to raise them with yiras shomayim imo way more important looking at some of these sad threads in marriage.

And that should as mothers be our focus
Back to top

Motek




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 12 2006, 6:33 pm
yes, basic skills, yiras shomayim!

and being a mentch, having good manners
Back to top

BinahYeteirah




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 12 2006, 7:18 pm
Motek wrote:
hisorerus wrote:
I'm raising my son so he won't expect his wife to have the house clean every night, or fancy supper cooked. I'm raising him to expect that Tatties help with kids, wash dishes, cook, and clean up. I claim I'm doing this for the good of my future daughter-in-law, and that I'm assuring him a good marriage.


I don't agree with this type of child-raising (sorry hisorerus, I like you anyway Smile ). My father was and is an excellent husband and he did not wash dishes, cook, and clean the house. He DID spend enormous amounts of time with us kids, though not much in childcare.

My parents filled the traditional roles of father leaves house every morning and comes home at night and provides for his family, while my mother was the homemaker and did not expect her husband to get up in the middle of the night for the baby or do any housecare since that was HER job and he had HIS. I will add that both my parents did errands outside the home.

Unless the mother is working fulltime because that is the arrangement the couple chose, I see no reason for the husband to do BOTH his job (whether it's learning or working) and hers. This is not to say that he shouldn't give a hand on Shabbos or other times, but not that he is "expected" to do all the things you enumerated.

and my brother is an excellent husband!

And why shouldn't the wife have the house clean and tidy when her husband walks in the door at night? I'm not talking Pesach-clean, but basic clean and tidy!

And who needs fancy suppers other than on special occasions, but a nice hot supper, yes!

I notice that you write that you "claim ... " which sounds like training your son is far from your mind and that you have other reasons ... Wink


I would like to think that my husband and I are fullfilling our traditional roles as well. He works full-time and I am a stay-at-home-mother/homemaker. I still need help from my husband or I couldn't get everything done I need to. So the idea that if I get my husband to help, he's "doing my job" is a bit offensive. I have tried to do my job with little help from my husband, but it usually results in my staying up late into the night finishing my dishwashing, laundry, etc. then also being up half the night with the baby. I am a pretty organized person, and the house is usually clean when he gets home (not *for* him, my husband doesn't require that of me, but just because I try to keep it that way). The dinnertime and bedtime ritual of a house with young children usually leaves plenty of work to be done after everyone is in bed. I had a number of jobs before marriage, and I can tell you being a mother is the hardest of them all. It's 24/7 and neverending. If I didn't have my husband's help, I would have committed myself long ago. I guess I'm a homemaking failure.
Back to top

Motek




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 12 2006, 7:28 pm
pity you skipped this line:

Quote:
This is not to say that he shouldn't give a hand on Shabbos or other times, but not that he is "expected" to do all the things you enumerated.


and if you need more help, then cleaning help is a legitimate expense so you can be free to care for your children

granted, it's not cheap, but help is a must

Mrs. Braunstein a'h, mother of 11, strongly advocated household help and said, "Eat tuna but GET HELP!"
Back to top

granolamom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 12 2006, 9:11 pm
I think there's something very basic that hasn't been said, though Beina alluded to it. My dh works, and he works very hard. on his way home, he'll call and ask if I need him to run any errands. why? is it because I want him to 'do my job'? no, its because he's trying to make my life more pleasant. I stay at home, and I work hard too, its exhausting. and about 20 min before I expect dh to come home I tidy up. why? is it because he 'expects me to'? no, its because I know its much more pleasant to walk into a tidy house and I want to do that for my hubby.
so if you (or your parents) embrace traditional roles or not, that's irrelavant. the problems arise when a spouse (or both) expect the other to 'do for me' without thinking 'what can I do for him/her'. I think to raise good husbands and wives we must be good husbands and wives. If a wife is having touble 'getting her husband to help' the problem isn't that his mother never taught him to wash dishes.
Back to top

stem




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 12 2006, 9:26 pm
A good husband is one who knows how to express his feelings and love for his wife. One who is not afraid to comunicate his thoughts, concerns, fears, and joys honestly.
I try to raise my son to be comfortable with his emotions.
There are a lot of parents who say things like: "don't cry, you're not a baby!" or "don't be afraid, be a man!" and such things, I think that makes a child grow up to be more reluctant to express his feelings and emotions as an adult.
Back to top

BinahYeteirah




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 12 2006, 10:15 pm
I agree with you, Granolamom. I'd like to think that we all do our jobs voluntarily, because we want to, not because the other expects us to do so. My husband and I share goals and values and that is one reason why we help each other (besides the fact that ahavas yisroel is a mitzvah and because we love each other). After all, by being considerate we are only helping ourselves.

Still, I think that if a boy never learns how to do dishes, it sets up something in his mind that he "can't". Or if a boy somehow absorbs the idea that certain jobs are beneath him and he can never lower himself to change a diaper, for example. In any case, if my husband didn't want to do a certain job, I would try to respect that, especially if he was willing to help in other ways.
Back to top

granolamom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 12 2006, 10:24 pm
Still, I think that if a boy never learns how to do dishes, it sets up something in his mind that he "can't". Or if a boy somehow absorbs the idea that certain jobs are beneath him and he can never lower himself to change a diaper, for example. In any case, if my husband didn't want to do a certain job, I would try to respect that, especially if he was willing to help in other ways

yes, I agree we should teach our children (boys and girls) how to take care of themselves and their surroundings, but there might be something you don't teach them or something they dislike doing. If a husband wasn't ever taught to use soap and hot water to wash dishes but his heart is in the right place, it won't be a problem. assuming of course his wife doesn't mock or shame him but teaches him herself. I've learned alot about fixing toilets from my dh and he changes a mean diaper. something neither of us were taught as kids.
I think no one should ever think a job is 'beneath' them. I can't imagine living with such a person, sounds awfully disrespectful of the person being expected to perform those lowly tasks.
and yes, I think we should all be respectful of the fact that people like/dislike certain jobs.
Back to top

BinahYeteirah




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 12 2006, 10:51 pm
Motek, no, I didn't skip that line. It is just that that line makes it seem like the husband helping is a rare, "occasional" thing. Personally, I like it when my husband helps regularly. I don't expect him to do any one "housekeeping" thing in particular everyday, but when he sees I need help and I ask him to help, I would like him to help me without giving me the feeling that he is going "beyond the call of duty" or the like because he has already done "his job".

I'd love to have household help, but when you're already eating tuna, well... And that's besides the fact that I find the evening hours a generally busy time and even if I did have household help I'd still appreciate my husband's help at that time of day. I wouldn't want a cleaner around during that family time of day either.

Anyway, I'm not saying you are like this, but I have encountered some pretty righteous attitudes around this issue. I am reminded of one woman in particular. I hope you aren't her, Motek (surely you aren't)! I went to her house on a yuntif for a meal with my husband and my baby daughter, who was, at the time, around 14 months old. When I came in, my daughter started playing with this woman's houseplant. I took her away from the plant and I started to take off my coat. My baby started to touch the plant again. The woman started speaking to me in a rude tone of voice about not allowing my baby to touch her plant. Obviously, I immediately took her away from the plant again. I was only distracted for 30 sec., long enough to take off my coat. IMO, that's normal with a young toddler, but she said something about how a mother needs to watch her kid better and stop her from doing that, like I was just letting her run wild. Of course, my husband was right there, but none of her comments were directed to him. Of course, the baby was my sole responsibility. Later in the meal, my baby started to get tired and I asked my husband to put her to sleep in one of the bedrooms. My baby was going through a period where nothing I did to get her to sleep would work except after an hour or so, but my husband had developed a method to get her to sleep more quickly. He knew how much I wanted to socialize on yuntif, because I was never able to leave the house on Shabbos, so he agreed to do this for me. The whole time he was gone, the woman lectured me about how men need to rest because they work so hard and that I should have put my baby to sleep. She told me I should have just nursed her to sleep and not bothered my husband. It would have taken me forever to nurse her to sleep because that is the phase she was going through at the time. I told her that and she said something to the effect that usually babies go to sleep really fast if their mothers nurse them. She continued on and on and told me that if I wanted a break I should get a babysitter, but not to bother my husband, because it's the job of women to take care of babies. At that time, we had next to no money and there was no way I could afford a babysitter. The most rude thing was that she didn't mind her own business and that she embarrassed me in front of everyone. I don't care how everyone else runs their family. If they are happy, that's great. If she thinks a man should never help his wife even though she's starved for adult conversation, if that works for her, fine. But to criticize me, telling me that I don't have the proper attitude towards marriage, she just put her nose where it didn't belong. If my husband was happy to help, why did she think it was okay to meddle?

Anyway that story turned out to be more about minding one's own business and being polite than about husbands helping, but I just think it shows that there is more than one way to run a traditional household. Often the husband can find his own way to be with the children that the mother doesn't have, and when he develops his own independent relationship with them, I think it benefits everyone.
Back to top

BinahYeteirah




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 12 2006, 10:53 pm
granolamom wrote:
I've learned alot about fixing toilets from my dh and he changes a mean diaper.


LOL I've changed a lot of "mean" diapers myself! LOL
Back to top

happymom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 13 2006, 12:06 am
Quote:
A good husband is one who knows how to express his feelings and love for his wife. One who is not afraid to comunicate his thoughts, concerns, fears, and joys honestly.


stem, MEN are like the this. there is nothing wrong with it!!! its just the way they are. Woman are naturally able to communicate their feelings better then men. Also, many times when men express their love in ways they know how... woman thing its not their "right" way, because its not the way THEY express love.... so yes there are many amazing husbands who have a hard time expressing their feeling, and doing things the way woman do them. we should appreciate them for the good qualities they have, and learn how to accept love their way. and try to understand the way they feel their way of expressing it...
Back to top

chen




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 13 2006, 8:21 am
Sorry to say I believe the Yeshiva system is at least in part to blame. When boys are in school till late every evening, encouraged to spend even more time at night seder, with mishmar Thursday nights (prime Shabbos-preparation time), there's not much time left for them to help with the heavy-duty stuff.

Furthermore, from what I have observed, girls are reminded from early elementary days that they must help their mothers prepare for Shabbos and YomTov, even getting assignments and checklists to bring back to show what they did, while boys get checklists to show how many minutes, hours or Perakim they learned. The rebbeim are silent on the issue of helping around the house, even before Pesach.


As a mother who is indeed trying to bring up sons to shoulder their full share of responsibility in the house, I find that yeshiva is thwarting me rather than helping. (B"H my influence is such that my sons apparently do more around the house than most of their classmates, but this is very much in spite of their yeshiva education, not because of it.)

I don't believe that family members should be allowed to do just the jobs they like and want to do: they should be taught to do everything and be made to understand that these jobs are their responsibility. (That's what job wheels are for: to rotate the responsibilities so that everyone has a chance to do all jobs, the fun and not-so-fun, the hard and not-so-hard.) The home is training for life. In real life, we do not have the luxury of doing only the things we want to--we do the things we have to, whether we like them or not. At least, we do if we are mature individuals.
Back to top

happymom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 13 2006, 9:13 am
Quote:
Sorry to say I believe the Yeshiva system is at least in part to blame. When boys are in school till late every evening, encouraged to spend even more time at night seder, with mishmar Thursday nights (prime Shabbos-preparation time), there's not much time left for them to help with the heavy-duty stuff.



Because it is very important for boys to be learning! I think tis a beautiful thing! I would want my boys to sit at learn as much as they can. In my house, the boys learn alot, but whenever they are around, even though its less then the girls THEY HELP! I don't think its a bad thing AT ALL. Boys and girls are different and have different jobs! ITs not a COMPETITION thing where we are trying to make boys and girls do the same amount of work. Just because boys have long hours doesn't mean they aren't and cant be taught to help around the house when they are home... on yom tov etc.
Back to top

Motek




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jan 14 2006, 7:52 pm
granolamom wrote:
If a wife is having touble 'getting her husband to help' the problem isn't that his mother never taught him to wash dishes.


I agree!

binahy. wrote:
Anyway that story turned out to be more about minding one's own business and being polite than about husbands helping


yup

Quote:
Often the husband can find his own way to be with the children that the mother doesn't have, and when he develops his own independent relationship with them, I think it benefits everyone


I agree!

chen wrote:
Sorry to say I believe the Yeshiva system is at least in part to blame.


sorry, sounds like you just don't have the same values as the yeshiva system (at least on this point)! Being a bachur is a brief time for full-time, no distractions, no other responsibilities except for learning.

as for bein ha'zemanim - it has been said time and again that when bachurim go home for bein ha'zemanim this is not a time for them to put their feet up and be catered to. And if they're acting obnoxiously I don't blame the yeshiva but the homes that raised them.
Back to top

granolamom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2006, 8:30 am
[/quote]

In my house, the boys learn alot, but whenever they are around, even though its less then the girls THEY HELP! I don't think its a bad thing AT ALL. Boys and girls are different and have different jobs! ITs not a COMPETITION thing where we are trying to make boys and girls do the same amount of work. Just because boys have long hours doesn't mean they aren't and cant be taught to help around the house when they are home... on yom tov etc.[/quote]

I think alot of it has to do with attitude. your boys help out when they can because they are contributing members of the family. But if boys are taught that they should learn as much as possible and when they get home they deserve to rest while the rest of the family serves them, well, that's not going to serve them well later on. My boys are still small, but why don't the yeshivas send home checklists that include helping prepare for shabbos?
and I still don't have a problem with kids choosing their chores, within reason. of course if nobody likes to take out the garbage, we'll rotate. and we pair those types of chores with the ones everyone fights over (such as washing the floor).
Back to top

granolamom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2006, 8:32 am
what am I doing wrong with the quotes? they aren't showing up in white boxes...
Back to top

happymom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 15 2006, 9:56 am
Quote:
My boys are still small, but why don't the yeshivas send home checklists that include helping prepare for shabbos?



Girls schools dont do this either. at least mine didnt. I think this is up to the parents.
Back to top
Page 2 of 2 Previous  1  2 Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Parenting our children

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Spoiled generation?
by amother
94 Yesterday at 9:57 am View last post
Raising boys vs girls
by amother
17 Thu, Mar 07 2024, 1:22 pm View last post
Husbands 50th Birthday
by amother
8 Mon, Mar 04 2024, 1:48 pm View last post
Raising voice to husband
by amother
2 Wed, Feb 07 2024, 8:34 pm View last post
Support Group for Raising kids w/Tourette’s & Coprolalia
by amother
37 Tue, Jan 30 2024, 8:47 am View last post