Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Interesting Discussions
Help! how do I answer a non-jew's question about judiasm??



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

ss321




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 25 2009, 4:28 pm
So to make a long story short, I went to lunch today with a couple classmates, one of whom is a very religious christian. Although I really try to avoid religion discussions, somehow the conversation digressed, and she basically asked me the following

if "we" (ie them) have all this proof that Yoshke walked on water (not that I am doubting that fact, I think the gemara even talks about it), and htat he is the "son of god" (I guess they were there by the delivery Rolling Eyes) and "the" saver/savior/messiah, why do jews have such a hard time believing all these things as fact, they dont contradict the "toe-raw" (that is how she pronounces it, emphasis on the toe part), in fact, we believe in the old testament too. Luckily, right as I started saying, well (not having anything in my mind to say and planning on doing it as I went along), she got paged, and that was the end of that.

Im sure some women will read this and say great- it was bashert she was paged, leave it alone! But in all honesty, its going to come up again. And I would rather have a well thought out answer for next time (I think Hashem was saving me, so I could formulate an answer. really!). Id rather her hear something from me, a frum jew, than ask someone else who is either christian, jewish but not religious, or read something antisemitic on the internet. I dont think I "owe" her an answer, our religion isnt about being "mekarev' and proselytizing (sp?) people of other faiths, but like I said, I dont want her thinking badly of judaism, but I dont know how to give her an answer based on "facts," something tangible that as someone who isnt jewish, she can understand, and thereafter hopefully respect the "jewish" point of view. I know that Yoshke lived in the time of hte tanaim and that R' Elisha ben Abuya was his rebbe,and that once R Elisha was saying krias shema and he tried to interrupt him, and R Elisha ignored him and it says because of that he got so angry at the "lack of derech eretz" that he totally went off hte deep end. But other than that we really didnt learn much about these issues in school...and living in Brooklyn NY, I dont have that much exposure to "kiruv" type programs or environments....I dont have an answer. Any sort of help would be greatly appreciated!
Back to top

GetReal




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 25 2009, 4:30 pm
I highly recommend www.JewsforJudaism.org . It has articles written by frum people who are experts in this stuff.
Back to top

Lechatchila Ariber




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 25 2009, 4:39 pm
what getreal says and


Quote:
if "we" (ie them) have all this proof that YOSHKE walked on water (not that I am doubting that fact, I think the gemara even talks about it), and htat he is the "son of god" (I guess they were there by the delivery ) and "the" saver/savior/messiah, why do jews have such a hard time believing all these things as fact, they dont contradict the "toe-raw" (that is how she pronounces it, emphasis on the toe part), in fact, we believe in the old testament too. Luckily, right as I started saying, well (not having anything in my mind to say and planning on doing it as I went along), she got paged, and that was the end of that.


First of all many christians confuse the bible bit not realizing that we ONLY believe in the old testament and the new one means nothing to us.

second, I'm not sure what the question is. "If we believe why don't you believe?" sorry I don't get that and if someone asked me my reply would be "how does you believing prove that I should believe?"

as far as contradiction to the Torah, sure their beliefs contradict Torah, loud and clear.
anoichi hashem elokecha.....and you shall have no other, no man no object nada.
Believing in Yoshke as the son of god directly contradicts this.
Back to top

SomebodyElse




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 25 2009, 4:46 pm
Short answer: it DOES contradict the Torah. There are criteria for identifying Moshiach.

I can't vouch for this source (http://www.jewfaq.org/moshiach.htm), but the paragraph below seems accurate:

"The moshiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing us back to Israel and restoring Jerusalem (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). He will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles (Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1). He will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship (Jeremiah 33:18). He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15). "

Did Yoshke do all that? NOPE! Does your friend think he's going to? Ask her what proof she has of that!
Back to top

shlomitsmum




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 25 2009, 4:58 pm
The book idiots guide to judeism answers all those questions....DH had a fanatical Boss who became born again ..LOL who just loved to talk and question his lack of proof.... even answering questions did not stop the questioning,so beware... It can get so anoying... Exploding anger

DH finally said I'm sorry ,I do not discuss my religion just as I do not discuss my marriage ,as I'ts something very personal and sacred to me.. and not open for debate . and was firm and blunt many times... B'h he moved on to a new job.

I say educate yourself but stay away from her if you can ,when they start to talk they just want to prove their point and convert you...

so stay away .
Wink
Back to top

btMOMtoFFBs




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 25 2009, 5:03 pm
Don't know how eloquent this is, but I once told a coworker that I find it hard to believe that G-d would give a Torah and then "change His mind" and make up a new religion with that negates so much of Judaism.

The whole trinity thing is hard to swallow, are we talking about 3 deities here?

The day of Sabbath, bris mila, keeping kosher, taharas hamishpacha... G-d just stopped caring about all that after giving us the Torah that tells us that those things bring kedusha to human beings?

Logically doesn't make sense.
Back to top

fish123




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 25 2009, 5:28 pm
Other criteria for being mashiach is being from beit david- which is dependant on the father- kind of contradicts their son of idea.

I think its great that you are going to talk to others about this as many have misconceptions about Jews and Judaism. I'm in grad school and my classmates ask me questions all the time.

Not that you wouldn't, but make sure you are respectful when talking to them as you would hope they would be when talking to you. This is sure to make them more receptive of your comments.

Good luck!
Back to top

ss321




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2009, 6:37 am
Lechatchila Ariber wrote:

First of all many christians confuse the bible bit not realizing that we ONLY believe in the old testament and the new one means nothing to us.

I know. I told her, we only believe in the old testament. and she couldnt understand why. I dont have a reason other than the new testament is just NOT PART OF THE TORAH, end of story. I dont have a "justification" that would please a christian, I dont know how to answer.


Lechatchila Ariber wrote:

second, I'm not sure what the question is. "If we believe why don't you believe?" sorry I don't get that and if someone asked me my reply would be "how does you believing prove that I should believe?"

I dont think she was challenging it, youre right, I could just say back to her - "if WE believe abc, why dont you believe THAT, too"-same question. But I dont really care why they believe what they believe. She is not tryign to change my beliefs, I think she is just sincerely curious as to why jewish people cant believe their garbage.

Lechatchila Ariber wrote:

as far as contradiction to the Torah, sure their beliefs contradict Torah, loud and clear.
anoichi hashem elokecha.....and you shall have no other, no man no object nada.
Believing in Yoshke as the son of god directly contradicts this.

Well, just from conversations I have had in the past (It didnt get this far yesterday), not to them. They dont believe (I guess? from my undertanding of their religion which is nominal) that Yoshke is a "god", only that he is the "son of god." I guess thats how they get around this tricky language, because they too believe in the old testament.
Back to top

ss321




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2009, 6:39 am
SomebodyElse wrote:


"The moshiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing us back to Israel and restoring Jerusalem (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). He will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles (Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1). He will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship (Jeremiah 33:18). He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15). "

Did Yoshke do all that? NOPE! Does your friend think he's going to? Ask her what proof she has of that!

Right so all this I know. I dont think they believe that he DID do all that, only that he WILL (s/o pls correct me if I am wrong)
If I ask for proof there is a chance shell bring me some "verse" from the new testament that like "proves it"
and then my only ans to her is like "we dont believe in the new testament?" Its like a circular argument...then shell be like "well why not"
gosh I really just dont have the answers to these things because quite frankly I never cared...
Back to top

ss321




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2009, 6:43 am
btMOMtoFFBs wrote:
Don't know how eloquent this is, but I once told a coworker that I find it hard to believe that G-d would give a Torah and then "change His mind" and make up a new religion with that negates so much of Judaism.

yea, I agree, but just because I find it "hard to believe" doesnt mean she does. I find everything about their religion "unbelievable" but that doesnt give me like a "tangible" answer that can shut her up from an intellectual standpoint u know what I mean?
btMOMtoFFBs wrote:

The day of Sabbath, bris mila, keeping kosher, taharas hamishpacha... G-d just stopped caring about all that after giving us the Torah that tells us that those things bring kedusha to human beings?
Logically doesn't make sense.

Thanks for this, I will try to build on this...
Back to top

ss321




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 26 2009, 6:46 am
fish123 wrote:
Other criteria for being mashiach is being from beit david- which is dependant on the father- kind of contradicts their son of idea.

will try that.
do you have the source. I know it says it, but do you have like the english "book" of the bible and the verse where it says it?

fish123 wrote:

Not that you wouldn't, but make sure you are respectful when talking to them as you would hope they would be when talking to you. This is sure to make them more receptive of your comments.
Good luck!

I know....thats why I came here for advice...I feel like its thin ice. being that I dont know much about christianity, other than like xmas is dec 25 and easter is sometime around pesach, I want to make sure everything I say is respectful, and that I have all my facts in order. embarrassed We never learn any of this stuff in school. So I figured, there are so many ppl on here, from so many diverse backgrounds. Im sure there is probably a giyores or two on here, maybe on of them could help me out? or maybe a BT who has encountered such questions? all the chabad women living in remote places where not religious people might ask them such things- like oh you think being frum and believing in hashem is so much better than how other religions do it- prove it. I dont know....
Back to top
Page 1 of 1 Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Interesting Discussions

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Any way to make a non lace look very natural?
by amother
10 Tue, Mar 26 2024, 7:46 pm View last post
Was Moshe a religious Jew?
by amother
19 Fri, Mar 22 2024, 2:11 pm View last post
Non see through white Shabbos top
by amother
2 Mon, Mar 18 2024, 8:12 pm View last post
Cheapest non-iron dressy white boy shirts?
by amother
7 Sun, Mar 17 2024, 9:09 pm View last post
Non-toilet-related things that make you scratch your head
by amother
16 Fri, Mar 15 2024, 8:41 am View last post