Appropriate Punishment

amother

Thu, Feb 11 2010, 9:51 pm

op here

is rebbe already had him write a note, which requires both parent's signatures.

I want him to see how upset I am. I dont feel like me explaining it to him or me yelling (which I didnt but definately spoke in an upset manner) at him is enough.

ValleyMom

Thu, Feb 11 2010, 10:04 pm

Clearly your child was innapropriate but try to understand it from a child's point of view. The teacher was TAKING AWAY points. The points were originally intended as a means of positive reinforcement for good behavior. Probably earning points toward a special treat. THEN the Rebbe reverses his behavior strategy by TAKING AWAY points for bad behavior. Let me make this as simple as possible:

NEGATIVE REINFORCEMENT RARELY WORKS.

Your child clapped because his Rebbe inadvertantly switched the behavior plan. If I was seven I probably would have had the same response.

I would bet the Rebbe is either inexperienced and new or too old and tired or simply shouldn't be in Chinuch.

If he wrote the note to the Rebbe then the next step would sit down with him and come up with a list of strategies your child can have when he gets frustrated with his Rebbe. Because this Rebbe is clearly going to frustrate your son. He frustrates me and I am NOT even in his class!

Last edited by ValleyMom on Thu, Feb 11 2010, 10:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

sarachana

Thu, Feb 11 2010, 10:04 pm

marina wrote:

In our house, if we get a letter from a teacher, the child is grounded, minimally for a day, likely more, depending on the infraction.

Grounded means you stay in your room and only leave to use the bathroom. Supper is brought to you.

MARINA I LIKE IT Thumbs Up

the world's best mom

Thu, Feb 11 2010, 10:26 pm

I'm gueesing he would only be so happy about someone else losing points if these points were a competition where the winner gets a prize. When one kid loses points, that makes it easier for the other kids to win the prize. If that's why your son was so excited, I would talk to him about what was wrong with his reaction, but I would also understand where his response was coming from. Kids see things from their own point of view and they just don't always realize that someone else may be feeling sad while they are so happy.

If it was not a competition between the kids, then the reaction was more serious. I don't see how grounding would help, but I don't know what I would do. My kids are still too little for such things.

freshie

Fri, Feb 12 2010, 11:42 am

Marina- If I was your child I would have loved that punishment! A chance to be in my room alone. undisturbed, reading and no chores to do and food brought to me no less!! Lol I know it works for the sociable child who loves moving around but for me it would have been paradise!

allergypro

Fri, Feb 12 2010, 12:34 pm

I teach second grade boys, and let me tell u, most of the time when they are chutzpadik, they dont even understand what that means or what they did wrong. so to answer your question, siting him down and talking to him would be step number one. ask him why he did what he did-youd be surprised at kids answers. then explain to him why it was wrong. discuss different things he can do if the sittuation comes up again and he feels like doing it again. and then have him sit down and write a letter HIMSELF, in HIS words. how sorry he is. then explain to him that your very sad that something like this happened and you expect to never encounter such behavior again. if he is an otherwise well behaved child, than this is enough. im sure that in addition to this he was humiliated and embarrased when being rebuked by the rebbe. at this point, your only concern should be that he understands what he did wrong, and appologize. hatzlocho!

AlwaysGrateful

Fri, Feb 12 2010, 12:41 pm

allergypro wrote:

I agree. The punishment isn't the point, assuming this kid is normally well-behaved. Showing your disappointment and making sure that he understands the issue is important.

Not to mention the fact that yes, you'd be surprised what the kid took out of the situation. He's a seven-year-old kid. Of course you're not going to "take his side," but it helps to know what is going through his head so that you can be mechanech him correctly...

Happy Mom

Fri, Feb 12 2010, 1:37 pm

Even if the rebbe could have done things more effectively, as parents we have to be responsible to help our kids learn appropriate behavior.

A seven year old is young but not too young to learn that chutzpa isn't acceptable. Showing him now how seriously you take it now will be a big deterrent in the future. If it were my child I'd have him write his own letter, and then take him to give it to the rebbe at his home. And I'd let my child know that if I heard about something like this happening again, I'd come with him to school and sit next to him for the day (including recess, lunchtime...) to ensure that he spoke respectfully to his rebbe. Seriously.

Last edited by Happy Mom on Fri, Feb 12 2010, 3:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Fri, Feb 12 2010, 1:42 pm

op here:

I am okay with how the rebbe responded, especially since for the past month they've been discussing derech eretz in class and at home.

I chose to "ground" my son. I know he's only 7 but he knows better than that.

maybe I'm being too hard on him but I'd rather be hard with him now, give him his punishment today and spend shabbos (when work and school arent in the way) giving him extra love.

marina

Fri, Feb 12 2010, 2:57 pm

Ruchel wrote:

Well. THIS is one of the pros of Jewish school. Even in a good public school I don't think anyone would have paid attention to a small thing like this.

it's not a little thing at all, ruchel. The teacher has a system and is deducting points ( Always- I have no idea how you know what the system is, but a system that takes away points is just as good as anyother. For example, if they start out with 10 points and lose or gain depending on their behavior, etc.) and the kid is laughing and clapping when the teacher is giving out the punishment? That is very disruptive and annoying to teachers and it would absolutely be noticed in most public schools.

chaylizi

Fri, Feb 12 2010, 3:03 pm

My daughter's English teacher has a great system. They have an envelope with 3 index cards on their desk at the start of each afternoon. If they misbehave once, she pulls the red card & they get a warning. If they misbehave a second time, she pulls a yellow card & the teacher writes a note home. If they misbehave a third time, she pulls a green card & they go to the principals office. My daughter is sufficiently aware of the system that she rarely gets cards pulled. She is too embarrassed for me to find out that she misbehaved in class.

Barbara

Fri, Feb 12 2010, 3:32 pm

First, ask him what happened. Get his explanation, esp as to why he clapped. I read it that he clapped while points were being taken away from HIM. That is likely a defense mechanism on his part. Speak with him calmly about the type of behavior that you expect from him, and what is appropriate.

I would have your son write a note, in his own words, apologizing for being disruptive and promising to try to behave in the future. We do ground DS, but he's older, and I don't want him eating in his room (although it does have a cool Where the Wild Things Are vibe to it). For a 7 year old, I'd take away a privilege (no staying up late tonight, or something like that), or have him sit in his room a short time to think about what he did.

Make sure he knows the consequences of further infractions, then stick to it.

Ruchel

Sat, Feb 13 2010, 1:51 pm

marina wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

Well. THIS is one of the pros of Jewish school. Even in a good public school I don't think anyone would have paid attention to a small thing like this.

I can see teachers just rolling their eyes. It's just clapping/laughing. It happened when a teacher threw a pupil out of class.