Judging the financial capabilities of others

southernbubby

Mon, Jul 10 2006, 6:50 am

Obviously no one should give their larger donations where they don't feel the need to give but I can understand what is going on here. During engagements poor people are often pressured to cough up huge sums of money, often for extravagances. Usually the chosson gives the kallah jewelry and pearls can be very inexpensive. Kmart has genuine pearls that look fine to the untrained eye. Those who don't feel that pearls for a kallah are necessary don't need to give for that purpose but I know why they are collecting.
Someone called me recently to ask a donation to send a local child to an out-of -town overnight camp. They left a message, so I did not return the call. I don't have as much problem with pearl for a kallah (which is a one time expense) than I do for a camp experience that may be expected every year.

chen

Mon, Jul 10 2006, 7:08 am

interesting, suthernbubby--I'd sooner give $ to send a child to camp than to buy pearls for a kalloh.

1. a child is a child and we can't expect him to overcome feelings of deprivation so easily. a kalloh is an adult (theoretically) and should not be thirsting for luxuries she cannot afford.

2. summer in the inner city is a miserable experience. (says I, veteran of many, many summers in the innermost inner city.) camp can be a great once-in-a-lifetime experience. it doesn't have to be every year.

3. you can buy fake pearls that look just as nice for a fraction of the price; no one need ever know. you can't buy a fake summer in camp.

4. sending a child to camp is not only for the child; it also provides a break for the mother.

of course, all other things being equal, I'd probably rather send several kids to day camp rather than just one to sleepaway camp.

shoy18

Mon, Jul 10 2006, 7:19 am

I have a problem giving money so other peoples children can go to camp or for a kallah to get pearls, those are EXTRA's not to be expected especially if the family is in a poor financial state. their are many children who cant always go to camp and have to stay home some summers and their parents arent knocking on doors.

I would say to those people to go approach the camp or a jewlery store and explain themselves, maybe they will get a discount, but dont come knocking on my door for such things

southernbubby

Mon, Jul 10 2006, 7:59 am

We live in a suburb with nice day camps and there is an overnight camp not far from here for frum kids. For the child to attend the overnight camp that was chosen, he would also need airfare or lots of gas in the car. While there may, as Chen stated, be some reason for the child to attend this camp and it may be a one time expectation, there are cheaper options.
Hachnassas kallah is a delicate subject. A girl dreams all of her life about being a kallah and she will never be that special again. I have read stories about people going beyond the usual expectations for poor kallahs. I HATE raising money but I once did it for a poor kallah. I went to a house where the balabus gave me a check for $18. A while later I got a call from the wife saying, "you come right back here! We never give so little for hachnassas kallah. My husband didn't know what you were collecting for." She gave an additional $36. Maybe there is the feeling that making a kallah feel that special will carry her through the difficulties of life.
We once found a jeweler who gave the wholesale price to families where the father was in chinuch.

chanab

Mon, Jul 10 2006, 10:56 am

Quote:

You can say no to that vacation,

Why can a person not "fargin" another person something which they themselves would never likely be able to afford? What

There is a well known baal chesed who once ordered 3 beautiful strings of pearls for 3 poor women in Israel . When asked by the jeweler why he doesn´t buy them necessities---why do these women need the pearls???, He answered that noone else will buy these women a luxury and every woman needs to feel special.....
There is a saying in Yiddish "A Zateh farshteit nisht a hungeriker"......

amother

Mon, Jul 10 2006, 3:35 pm

You are so right, chanab. I was a kallah who received the barest minimum of jewelry, (one normal piece, and two cheap items that a bas-mitzvah girl would get from friends) and in x amount of years, can count on less than the fingers of one hand the times that I received a gift of simple, inexpensive jewelry from my husband.

I'm past craving for jewelry, but it's a nagging feeling that you are less "worthwhile" or appreciated than other women are by their husband, or chasan... These feelings have surfaced from time to time making me sad. Had I received a "real" string of pearls, or item of similar worth I would not have felt this way.

chen

Tue, Jul 11 2006, 5:17 am

amother wrote:

we're a little OT here, but the fact that your dh doesn't shower you with gifts the way some men might is not necessarily a reflection of how he feels about you. some families are just not into gift-giving--or maybe they are davko philosophically opposed to giving expensive gifts. The real proof of the pudding is not what kind of gifts he gives you and how much they are worth on the retail market, but how he relates to you. Does he treat you with respect? is he faithful? Does he value your opinion? Does he do things for you? Help around the house and with the children? Is he thoughtful and considerate in other ways? If the answer to these is yes, then the lack of gifts doesn't matter. If the answer to these is no, then showering you with luxurious doodads also wouldn't matter.

On the flip side, a man who gives his wife expensive goodies on traditional giftgiving occasions is not necessarily showing love at all. He may be doing this solely out of a sense of obligation or guilt. Don't people say "I have to get so and so a birthday present"? Have to--don't necessarily want to.

Bottom line: don't compare your husband to other men, and don't think that gifts are the only way of showing love.

chabadnick

Tue, Jul 11 2006, 5:22 am

ok...so then if someone really doesnt have funds and recieves tomchei shabbos,,,assistance from parents and help from the community. Then grandmother decides to pay for children to have a new car- as theirs died and she decides that she will buy them a newer model. this is one time thing! should the school be able to say - they have money- they should pay full tution??

sarahd

Tue, Jul 11 2006, 5:48 am

Again, no one is saying they shouldn't get a new car (although perhaps they shouldn't buy a brand-new car and should put the difference towards tuition) but they should understand that questions will arise when they start driving around in a late-model car just after claiming that they can't possibly pay more than $200 a month tuition.

amother

Wed, Aug 23 2006, 4:56 pm

B"H I am able to pay full tuition for my two children. I am happy because I think I am supporting a good cause. However, I remember my parents, who had little money always getting a scholership. THey never sat around they always made sure to volunteer for the school, make phone calls when needed, and basically do anything in exchange for the money they were being given. I think it's important to realize that a school can't run on no money. Most administraters get paid nothing and it's difficult.

Esther01

Wed, Aug 23 2006, 9:21 pm

this thread is scaring me. my first dd is starting school this year. tuition for her (preschooler) is much more than I ever dreamed tuition can be. we applied for a tuition break... we still didn't have the meeting...
are you telling me they will ask me exactly how I spend my money? how can they understand my priorities?
I know I spend more money than others do for excesize and diet. I am overweight and I have to take care of myself. it does come out to a couple of hundred a month, but that is my priority... will they understand that???
oh well, it doesn't pay to worry... I'll just wait and see what happens.