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In this week's Jewish Press...what do you think?
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amother






Post  Thu, Jun 29 2006, 9:16 pm
Quote:
Too bad the way she expresses herself will only appeal to people who are "fanatic" about the same things as she is...

Lthe same things.. uh .. duh.. parenting

The first 4 years are vital for bonding between mother and child to create a sense of security and stability not one of babysitters jewish or not that do not equal mother. I know that my dh and I have sacrificed many luxeries(what most my friends consider neccesities) so that I can stay home with our little ones.
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Motek




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 29 2006, 9:30 pm
goldrose, stem, kutiepie, baby'smom Thumbs Up

great letter cindy, thanks for posting it

a few comments:

Quote:
call on any Gadol you want – go ahead and I dare you to do it right now – and ask him if your husband’s limud Torah is worth the sacrifice of chinuch habanim. He will say NO.


Baloney! The reason WHY the mommies are working to support their husbands is because this is what they were taught in school is the ideal way of life.

Quote:
"I have too many kids, too close together.” I’m not even going there. If you were too stupid to figure out the ABC’s of birth control, you’re probably too stupid to raise your own kids. Maybe they are better off with the babysitter.


The ones with lots of kids close in age often can't afford babysitters and of course the birth control issue is not as simple as she makes it out to be.

Quote:
I say, JUDGE!! Let’s walk into the homes and schools of our communities and pull out these mothers and judge them – for the misguided, foolish, undeserving women that they are.


I love it 8)

Quote:
Why is the teenage-at-risk population growing? Why are our children growing up and turning to drugs?


Sure you'll find exceptions, but yeah, anybody notice a correlation between how many kids went off the derech in the 70's when most mommies were home when you came home from school and served milk and cookies, and today, when most mommies work?

good point mali about the babysitter
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avigayil




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 29 2006, 10:34 pm
I have to agree with Motek (rare, I know),with some of these things.
Many girls are completely raised with the ideal and mindset of being the breadwinner. So now you are going to blame her for the ideals taught in her home and her school?
If this woman in the Jewish Press wants results, send her letter to the Roshei Yeshivas here and in Eretz Yisrael!
She might actually get results instead of a bunch of guilty feeling, down troden moms.

Also, are we suppossed to put a limit of kids we have in a time span? I was born the eldest of 4 kids born in a 5 year time period. Which 1 of us does she want to send back?

Bottom line, if that mother wants the situation to change, tell the rabbanim. They sanction the working moms and encourage it. If they start to discourage it, then there WILL be change.
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luv2beamother




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 29 2006, 10:43 pm
It's very nice if she wants to stay home with her kids, but that doesn't mean that's the only way to do it (and raise good kids). And I think it's ridiculous to say it is. There are many reasons a woman would want to work and if she's a loving caring mother she can still be an amazing mother. that's just my opinion.
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luv2beamother




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 29 2006, 10:45 pm
everybody always thinks their way is the only way
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Crayon210




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 29 2006, 10:51 pm
I do agree with her that ideally a woman should be raising her children and not working outside the home. But there are realities to face, such as a family that cannot depend on the husband for whatever reason.

She also did not do her message justice by coming across so harshly, painting everyone with the same broad brush.

I also don't know the good of judging mothers who have made decisions that are different than the ones she made. Confused

And of course there's the hypocrisy element that she uses a baby-sitter for three hours a day but beats up on others who might use the same baby-sitter for the rest of the day!
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nicole81




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 29 2006, 11:07 pm
Yes, I agree with her underlying points as well. But I am a working mother for now because that is our only option. And I think it's quite ridiculous to equate working mothers with mothers who not only have the financial ability to stay home, but use that money to hire help for their children which they pursue their social needs.

It may be hard on a child to see mommy leave in the morning and come back to play in the evening, but I can't imagine how much harder it would be to think "hey, look, mommy is home but she doesn't even want to spend time with me when she's right over there!"
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luv2beamother




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 29 2006, 11:12 pm
right. most women I know who are working are doing so b/c they need to, and when they are home, they are wonderful mothers. They don't hire a babysitter to take over their mommy job while they get manicures. They are the mommies while their babysitters just watch the kids during work hours.
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stem




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 29 2006, 11:14 pm
I grew up with a SAHM who worked from home a couple of hours a day, and was always very busy running around the house cleaning up and cooking and talking on the phone. I never once thought "oy she's not spending time with me." If I needed her, she'd stop and take care of me, sometimes she'd read a book or something, but she wasn't my constant playmate just because she was home. She was a reliable, reassuring presence in my life and I will always be greatful.

So while it's true that not all SAHMs are giving their kids more "quality" attention than the WFT (working full time) mothers. But their constant presence in their kids lives, the quantity, the day in and day out of every day makes a tremendous impact on small children's lives. Consistancy is everything to a baby and small child, and is the perfect environment in which to thrive.
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happy




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 29 2006, 11:15 pm
I think the majority of women work out of necessity. Until something is done about the tuition crises and the the costs involved in marrying off kids crises nothing can truly change.

Stay at home moms make enormous sacrifices by staying at home. Many forgo purchasing a home, or going on vacations. Depending on the amount of time they have been absent from the work force, they may have a terribly hard time finding a job or acquiring new skills in order to return to their field.

Although I agree with stay at home moms and admire the sacrifices they are willing make on behalf of their children, this is not always an option. Some moms work just to get bread on the table -all due to the high costs of living an orthodox lifestyle.

Working moms are carrying around a tremendous amount of guilt and I see no point in aggravating their pain by writing such letters.
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baby's mom




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 29 2006, 11:27 pm
Don't working moms need to pay for a babysitter? So.. why work?

Being a SAHM I don't see it as a sacrifice. It is my duty, responsibilty and a Bracha. I am B"H very fortunate to be able to hang out with my daughter and spend so much time with her.

If circumstances were different and I "had" to get out and work (I currently work from home, around DD's scheduale) I would be my DD's teacher, so that I can be there with her. Wink I believe, especially at this young age (18 months) no one can take better care or love her as much as I do.
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Crayon210




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 29 2006, 11:30 pm
baby's mom wrote:
Don't working moms need to pay for a babysitter? So.. why work?


Because even if a woman only takes home half her salary after paying the baby-sitter, she might still be depending on that half to make ends meet.

Quote:
If circumstances were different and I "had" to get out and work (I currently work from home, around DD's scheduale) I would be my DD's teacher, so that I can be there with her.


Not everyone gets to pick out the specifics of their job like that.

Quote:
I believe, especially at this young age (18 months) no one can take better care or love her as much as I do.


What if you didn't have enough money to pay the rent? Would your care and love keep her dry when it's raining?
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shopaholic




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 29 2006, 11:31 pm
I think she's right about non-Jewish babysitters taking care of kids. I hate seeing these ladies at the park, or shopping, or taking them to & from school or even for pizza. I don't even believe that all these women work. (I know of 1 specifically who doesn't). But if they have to work, there are plenty of competent Jewish women in our neighborhood who babysit in their home.

I just started working after 3 years of being a SAHM because we need the extra income. It's only mornings so DH gets the kids out & I'm home when everyone comes home. For now, the baby goes to a babysitter. Next week, he starts playgroup.

The woman is a hypocrite saying people leave their kids with babysiitters, but she does the same. Even if she is a Russian. Doesn't sound like she's a heimish, frum woman.
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Crayon210




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 29 2006, 11:33 pm
momof3 wrote:
I think she's right about non-Jewish babysitters taking care of kids. I hate seeing these ladies at the park, or shopping, or taking them to & from school or even for pizza. I don't even believe that all these women work. (I know of 1 specifically who doesn't). But if they have to work, there are plenty of competent Jewish women in our neighborhood who babysit in their home.


I don't understand why the community gets to have an opinion about who takes care of other people's children.
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Motek




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 29 2006, 11:46 pm
luv2beamother wrote:
... if she's a loving caring mother she can still be an amazing mother. that's just my opinion.


Yeah, the magazines did a great job in promoting that idea- Headline: You Can Have It All!!!

avigayil wrote:
if that mother wants the situation to change, tell the rabbanim. They sanction the working moms and encourage it. If they start to discourage it, then there WILL be change.


Yes indeed, among the Kollel crowd. Won't help those looking to "self-actualize" though.

About the "hypocrisy element" - I highly doubt it's about hypocrisy. She would have to be stupid to write a letter decrying babysitters while saying, in the very same letter, that she uses one. I assume she's talking about the children in her neighborhood whom she meets at the park etc. at all times of the day, with a babysitter.

nicole wrote:
It may be hard on a child to see mommy leave in the morning and come back to play in the evening, but I can't imagine how much harder it would be to think "hey, look, mommy is home but she doesn't even want to spend time with me when she's right over there!"


"may be" - let's not kid ourselves
of course it's hard, and if it isn't, then something is seriously wrong with the mommy-child connection

and let's not kid ourselves about what the baby, todder, preschooler is thinking either, as though an attentive babysitter surpasses the average, busy mother
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Motek




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 29 2006, 11:47 pm
luv2beamother wrote:
most women I know who are working are doing so b/c they need to


happy wrote:
I think the majority of women work out of necessity.


That's what they all say. Not too many mothers will admit that if they made some lifestyle changes, they could stay home.

Quote:
Working moms are carrying around a tremendous amount of guilt and I see no point in aggravating their pain by writing such letters.


Guilt? Why?
If they're supporting their husbands in learning, they're proud of that. If they HAVE to work, or so they say, then that's what they have to do. No reason for guilt.
Guilt is only appropriate if they are making the wrong choice and know it.

stem - good post Thumbs Up

baby's mom wrote:
Being a SAHM I don't see it as a sacrifice. It is my duty, responsibilty and a Bracha. I am B"H very fortunate to be able to hang out with my daughter and spend so much time with her.


Salut

Quote:
I believe, especially at this young age (18 months) no one can take better care or love her as much as I do.


You're right (except possibly a grandmother).
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red sea




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 29 2006, 11:52 pm
momof3 wrote:
I think she's right about non-Jewish babysitters taking care of kids. I hate seeing these ladies at the park, or shopping, or taking them to & from school or even for pizza. I don't even believe that all these women work. (I know of 1 specifically who doesn't).



you know one, I know quite a few that don't work and have "help" all week. and you know what, their homes run much more smoothly than mine. what do you think about that? they are calm, more relaxed, more organized, get to rest and heal up quick when they have babies & more, but the bottom line is I really can see the difference in which kids are raised by the help and which kids aren't A LOT of the time, but not all the time.
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happymom




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 29 2006, 11:53 pm
the fact is that many woman who work DO NOT WORK OUT OF NECESSITy. they work because they "need to" to be happy. what about the baby being happy? Confused Yes there are always excptions, but mother is always best, and if some mother would only Know what is going on with their babysitters and children I think they'd think twice about babysitters. (at least I HOPE they would...) I go everywhere with my baby. I see the way babysitters in general treat the children. I can tell in a minute which child is with the mother, and which child is with the babysitter. Most of the time the babysitters (when I go to the park) are chatting on their cell phones, while their babies are looking sad. and needing attention that they arent getting enough of.
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red sea




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 29 2006, 11:54 pm
happymom wrote:
Most of the time the babysitters (when I go to the park) are chatting on their cell phones, while their babies are looking sad. and needing attention that they arent getting enough of.


So true
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Motek




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 29 2006, 11:55 pm
red sea wrote:
happymom wrote:
Most of the time the babysitters (when I go to the park) are chatting on their cell phones, while their babies are looking sad. and needing attention that they arent getting enough of.


So true


Mommies yap on cell phones too, when with their kids.
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