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Article about Parenting and moral choices

 
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Motek




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jul 11 2006, 11:34 am
I found this article disturbing. Make sure to see the interesting responses that follow the article, many of which contest the author's position. Yes, two of those comments are mine 8) anonymous though.

And I'm sure more comments will be posted there so stay tuned.

http://www.aish.com/family/men.....Theory.asp
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jul 11 2006, 11:54 am
My husband was always opposed to weaning before age 2 but none of mine actually nursed for 2 years. Either I was pregnant or wanted to be pregnant. My premie did not live at home until he was 5 month old. I tried to nurse him but he was so used to bottles that he wouldn't nurse. At least he remembers to call home and is a wonderful son.
I feel bad for kids who lose out on this special time in their lives. Mothers milk is infused with love that comes straight from the mother's heart. Some adoptive mothers manage to nurse, so that the child does not miss out. Is it a moral issue? I don't know if I would call it that. Everyday of raising children provides a different decision-making situation that could have far reaching influence. Mothers make dozens of such decisions about feeding, dressing, chores, what age to allow independence, etc and we don't always know what the outcome will be.
My premie, who unfortunately ended up on bottles, still felt loved. I tried my hardest to pump, nurse, etc but it didn't work for him. Mothers will always struggle with guilt, even when they have tried their best.
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didan




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jul 11 2006, 11:59 am
B"H

I did not read the entire article, reading through the first half was sufficient for me. Obviously the author is not educated much about nutrition and the benefits of breastfeeding over bottlefeeding (in a situation where there is an option).

I completely agree with your comments (pretty easy to know which ones were yours:)).

I liked the connection of the story of the Alter Rebbe to the Ferber method. While I dislike the Ferber method, I've never connected the two and it makes a lot of sense.
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JRKmommy




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jul 11 2006, 4:16 pm
I'm glad someone else mentioned "To Kindle a Soul" in the comments. I read an excerpt, "Life is for Love", on aish.com, and it specifically talks about the problems with the Ferber method!

I tend to think about all these aspects of parenting as being spiritual and important from a Jewish POV. I would agree, however, that a mother does have to apply her judgment and makes choices in real life. There may be medical or other physical issues interfering with breastfeeding. Lack of sleep may mean that a mother isn't fully functional the next day. One child may feel truly distressed if left to sleep alone, while another may fall asleep faster by crying for 2 min than by having a mother fuss over him [those children, btw, would be my oldest and youngest respectively. I was so convinced by dd#1 that babies can't be left and crave mommies' arms while sleeping that I was shocked when ds actually seemed annoyed and distracted by co-sleeping, and just wanted to sleep by himself with his blankie.]
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amother






Post  Tue, Jul 11 2006, 5:53 pm
why does the article say just like all mothers are working mothers? did I muisunderstand? im not a working mother....
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shalhevet




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jul 11 2006, 6:22 pm
We have discussed in another thread that a woman is obligated to nurse for 24 months unless there is a valid reason for her to stop.

I find it disturbing that a site like Aish can host someone purported to know about Torah topics who can make such an incredibly inaccurate statement that choosing whether or not to nurse has nothing to do with Torah.
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Motek




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jul 11 2006, 6:27 pm
amother wrote:
why does the article say just like all mothers are working mothers? did I muisunderstand? im not a working mother....


That might be because mothers who stay home work too! at being devoted mothers!

mummyof6 - have you complained to Aish? Feedback is very important. Let them hear from you!
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TzenaRena




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jul 11 2006, 6:41 pm
I tried letting the baby cry herself to sleep a few times, and never could carry through with it. at whatever age it was, I felt it was too young. Now I feel vindicated!

Quote:
I was so convinced by dd#1 that babies can't be left and crave mommies' arms while sleeping that I was shocked when ds actually seemed annoyed and distracted by co-sleeping, and just wanted to sleep by himself with his blankie.]
Same experience here! My daughter would fall asleep peacefully in my arms, while nursing her, but when he was tired my son would squirm and kvetch in my arms until I put him into his crib. He would then promptly put himself to sleep (substitute thumb for blankie Wink ).
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shalhevet




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jul 11 2006, 6:50 pm
Motek wrote:


mummyof6 - have you complained to Aish? Feedback is very important. Let them hear from you!


Thanks for the prod, Motek! I just sent them an e-mail.
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Motek




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jul 11 2006, 7:00 pm
Good! Smile
I can't be the ONLY one speaking up all the time, can I? Wink I mean, well, I COULD, but will they listen to one person Question
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mali




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jul 11 2006, 7:04 pm
I don't think she was advocating bottle-feeding. I think she was just stressing that we should allow each mother to raise her own children to the best of HER ability, and that we shouldn't judge others.
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shalhevet




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jul 11 2006, 7:14 pm
mali wrote:
I don't think she was advocating bottle-feeding. I think she was just stressing that we should allow each mother to raise her own children to the best of HER ability, and that we shouldn't judge others.


No, I also don't think that she was davka advocating bottle feeding. I think her point was that there is no da'as Torah (here we go again, Motek Wink ) and no halacha involved in any of the parenting issues, and that any choice a mother makes is entirely her own business. I.e. that no one choice is any better than any other.

I found this very disturbing for a Torah site to present as Torah. The Torah has what to say on everything. Nursing was just a really glaring example, since she said:

Quote:
And the Torah doesn't comment on the complexity of factors that affect a mother's decision whether to breastfeed or not.
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Motek




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jul 11 2006, 7:50 pm
mali wrote:
I don't think she was advocating bottle-feeding. I think she was just stressing that we should allow each mother to raise her own children to the best of HER ability, and that we shouldn't judge others.


And she has "faith" that all mothers know best.

yeah right

Her article is typical of the moral relativism of the day. Nobody is right. Nobody is wrong.

Whatever makes you happy.

Who are you to judge.

Blah, blah.
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JRKmommy




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 12 2006, 9:39 am
To clarify what I was saying before:

The part of the article that disturbed me was the blanket assertion that breastfeeding, letting a baby cry, etc. are NOT moral/Torah issues.

PC or not, the choices are not morally equivalent (nor, in the case of bf, are they medically equivalent).

That said, I do agree that mothers need to make choices in the real world, and that being judgmental instead of supportive of a basically good mother is not helpful.

For example, I wouldnt judge my SIL if she decides to bottle feed her baby, since she had surgery which may make it difficult or impossible to bf.

Moms also sometimes have to balance competing priorities/obligations. If you have a cranky baby who was up all night and wants to nurse all day, you may need to balance that with being functional enough to care for and carpool older kids and get things ready for Shabbat. However, the reason that you would still make the effort to soothe a cranky baby at night and nurse is that these things DO matter.
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Milk Munch




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 12 2006, 9:51 am
I was also upset by the article.
I think she makes a valid point- that we shouldn't be judgemental of other mothers and that mothers will choose what works for them etc.
But I did not think that talking about nursing illustrated her point at all. Rather it was just a way for her to "air" her personal issues or serve as a way to get a reaction.
(Whenever I read somrthing like that, it always comes across to me like the person is uncomfotable with thier choices and feels the need to justify it.)
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Milk Munch




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 12 2006, 10:03 am
You inspired me to leave a comment!
(I can't tell if it posted t hough....)
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goldrose




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 12 2006, 10:10 am
Motek wrote:
mali wrote:
I don't think she was advocating bottle-feeding. I think she was just stressing that we should allow each mother to raise her own children to the best of HER ability, and that we shouldn't judge others.


And she has "faith" that all mothers know best.

yeah right

Her article is typical of the moral relativism of the day. Nobody is right. Nobody is wrong.

Whatever makes you happy.

Who are you to judge.

Blah, blah.


totally agree with you, motek
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