Little girls and Tznius

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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

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BasMom

Wed, Jul 12 2006, 4:36 pm

What are people's opinions of when is the right time/age to start dressing your daughter in a tzniusdike manner?

Crayon210

Wed, Jul 12 2006, 4:41 pm

The Lubavitcher Rebbe holds that girls must start dressing b'tznius from age three.

Crayon210

Wed, Jul 12 2006, 4:41 pm

I believe the Chazon Ish holds that girls must be dressed b'tznius from the age that she is regarded as a "young lady", about six or seven.

613

Wed, Jul 12 2006, 4:44 pm

I think you have to ask your own rav.
personally, ours said to "wean" her off of untznius clothes starting at age 3, but it's okay if she wears them every now and then for another year.

ETA: THis reminds me of my neighbor whose 4 and 3 y.o. girls no longer wear pants, etc. But a few weeks ago they were outside in a kiddie pool in bathing suits. Does that make sense?

Last edited by 613 on Wed, Jul 12 2006, 4:52 pm; edited 2 times in total

Crayon210

Wed, Jul 12 2006, 4:47 pm

Oh, of course you have to ask your own rav, but you asked for opinions, so I was giving you a few pretty good ones. ;-)

BasMom

Wed, Jul 12 2006, 5:00 pm

Well, I wanted opinions, thank you!

I'm Lubavitch, but I'm not used to dressing girls b'Tznius at 3... It just seems to young for me.

Crayon210

Wed, Jul 12 2006, 5:13 pm

In the book "Tznius: The Jewel in our Crown", a letter from Rav Yekusiel Farkash is printed:

...

"As far as we* are concerned, however, [there is no latitude for leniency in this matter, for] we are guided solely by the words of the Rebbe as expressed explicitly and unequivocally in his sacred letter, published in Likuttei Sichos and (more recently) in Teshuvos Ubiurim be-Shulchan Aruch (no. 252 page 451). The Rebbe writes: 'According to the Shulchan Aruch a girl who is three years old must conduct herself according to the laws of tznius.'"

(*My note: "we" is clearly referring to Lubavitchers.)

Tefila

Wed, Jul 12 2006, 5:47 pm

Quote:

I'm Lubavitch, but I'm not used to dressing girls b'Tznius at 3... It just seems to young for me.

It didn't seem too young to our Lubavitch Rebbeim ! Or do we pick and choose what we want to do and what we don't yet still call ourselves lub Confused

BasMom

Wed, Jul 12 2006, 7:17 pm

Tefila wrote:

Quote:

I'm Lubavitch, but I'm not used to dressing girls b'Tznius at 3... It just seems to young for me.

It didn't seem too young to our Lubavitch Rebbeim ! Or do we pick and choose what we want to do and what we don't yet still call ourselves lub Confused

I think that was a bit of a rude response, Tefila. We all call ourselves frum, but there are some things that are difficult for us to do or just some things we are not 'good' at or used to doing. I am Lubav, but raised with 'flavoring' from different communities. There are diff levels of Avoida, and I resent your implications.

Crayon210

Wed, Jul 12 2006, 7:20 pm

BasMom wrote:

Tefila wrote:

Quote:

I'm Lubavitch, but I'm not used to dressing girls b'Tznius at 3... It just seems to young for me.

It didn't seem too young to our Lubavitch Rebbeim ! Or do we pick and choose what we want to do and what we don't yet still call ourselves lub Confused

No one said anyone wasn't frum, but when a person identifies with a particular group, s/he usually does make sure to do those things that the group's leader feels strongly about. If the Rebbe considers tznius at three to be the halacha, then it's very odd for someone who says she is one of the Rebbe's chasidim to say it's too young and not do that.

Crayon210

Wed, Jul 12 2006, 7:21 pm

Also, it's one thing to say, "I'm not strong enough to do that right now," it's quite another to say, "That seems a bit young to me," implying that you know better than the Rebbe.

A person who doesn't do everything the Rebbe wants is not excluded from being a chasid, but it's difficult to consider someone who "knows better than the Rebbe" to be a chasid.

BasMom

Wed, Jul 12 2006, 7:31 pm

Ok, Crayon, I see your point, but let me clarify that I wasn't saying that "I wouldn't do it." If the Rebbe felt strongly about starting at age 3, then that's probably what I will do. Nonetheless, because it does seem young for me (it's not what I'm used to,) it will seem strange.

Fair enough?

Crayon210

Wed, Jul 12 2006, 7:38 pm

100%!

BasMom

Wed, Jul 12 2006, 7:39 pm

Also, c"v I should know better than the Rebbe. I should have said "it seems so young to me."

Ruchel

Wed, Jul 12 2006, 8:30 pm

I would say at 3 the girl should wear skirts and sleeves (at least short ones), have the skirt to the knees and the elbow sleeves by the time they enter 1st grade.

amother

Wed, Jul 12 2006, 8:35 pm

unless of course she went to 8 stores and couldn't find long sleeves, then she can wear a tube top to first grade. Twisted Evil

amother

Wed, Jul 12 2006, 8:47 pm

I started my girls b'tznius at age three. including tights. some others thought that was too young. I told them, its not just that the Rebbe held like this and thats why we do it. the other thing is that in this day and age, we all know how difficult keeping tznius is. its a real struggle. I knew that the sooner you start, you make it into a habit, where its strange and unheard of for the child to even think about leaving the house without their normal garb. despite what some of their friends are wearing in camp.
One day one of my daughters was talking to the other and I overheard.
One said, I want to wear socks, like my friend.
and the other said, its so weird to wear socks. I wouldnt be able to, because I am so used to tights!
Needless to say, it made my heart swell.
And of course it instills in them how special and holy they are because they are covered. I tell them that all the time. I say, you are like the safer torah, so holy, we cover you because we cherish you and value you so much. your body is so precious.
Just some thoughts that may help you.

chanab

Wed, Jul 12 2006, 8:47 pm

Quote:

The Lubavitcher Rebbe holds that girls must start dressing b'tznius from age three.

The exact loshon of the Rebbe is actually: "Al pi shulchan oruch mibas gimmel veyom aleph kvar tzricha lehisnaheg betznius vekal vachomer lebas eser veyoser
Aval shelo lehachbid ol...uledaber bedarchei noam."

(likutei sichos chelek 18 p.448)

Ruchel

Wed, Jul 12 2006, 9:53 pm

amother wrote:

unless of course she went to 8 stores and couldn't find long sleeves, then she can wear a tube top to first grade. Twisted Evil

You're a coward, and you speak lashon hara. That's even worse.

shopaholic

Wed, Jul 12 2006, 10:01 pm

DD turned 3 just before Pesach. During the winter I kept looking out for long sleeved t-shirts to put away for the summer. I got quite a few plus a friend gave me some. I only bought knee socks. It's very hard when u see how cute & comfy her friends look in their short socks & short sleeves. Her school asks that the kids dress tznius but don't enforce it too well. I'm surprised at how many 3 & 4 year olds I see not covered up. I always thought that Lubavitchers start at age 3 like the Rebbe said.

Still, I'm proud of myself for not relenting. She's so cute no matter what she wears. And as my mother says, "Start as you mean to go on."

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