needed: BABY WHISPERER!!

Mumwithadrum

Sun, Aug 22 2010, 1:09 pm

my 5 month old: E- only eats 60 ml (2 oz) a feeding. he refuses to eat any more! A- is ok, but he gets tired very quickly, after 3o min he starts yawning. S- it takes me minimum 1 hr and up to 3 hrs to get him to sleep. this is done holding him in a baby carrier. he cries and kicks and is an absolute wreck, and so am I!!! he sleeps for 45 min to an hr, and then we start all over again. at night he wakes up to eat every 2-3 hrs. wake up is at six, and "bedtime" is 6:30-7.
HELP!! im going crazy and falling into a depression, my shalom bayis is garbage and I NEED SLEEP. how can I get on track?

spinkles

Sun, Aug 22 2010, 1:48 pm

Why does he need to go to bed so early? What if you would move bedtime to 10 p.m.?

Would you consider co-sleeping? I have done this with all four of my children. Both babies and mothers sleep better when co-sleeping.

During the day, are you playing with him and taking him to different places that are interesting to him (park, grocery shopping, etc.)? Maybe he needs to get really worn out before bed.

Have you started a bedtime routine that involves a bath and other soothing routines?

Since you are formula-feeding, why can't your husband take over some of the night feedings?

Mumwithadrum

Sun, Aug 22 2010, 4:02 pm

1) I go to sleep at 10! I need that time for my sanity, and his bedtime is at 7 for our full 5 months together.
2) I was full-time co-sleeping up until a month ago. I then switched to part time (either bringing him in later on in the night, or randomly leaving him in crib/giving him a full night with me). this was b/c I was up all night being over sensitive to him and therefore not sleeping.
3) I take him out... I do need to schedule my outings tho cuz somedays im out all day and some days im in all day... how does one live life with a baby? im so new to this, gahhh!!!!
4) I have a small bedtime routine, but im going to add a massage into the pic. I recently switched to formula b/c of low supply, and im nervous that maybe im doing too many changes at once. hes afraid of his bedroom!
5) just had a breakdown to the hub today. his rabbi told us that he shouldnt have to help at night cuz he gets up in the morning to go learn. he said I can have 2 twenty minute breaks within a 24 hr period from my hub. (I feel so bad for his wife!) thank G-d DH helps more than that!! but I finally cracked today and said enough is enough... so hopefully hes gonna start helping this week...

spinkles

Mon, Aug 23 2010, 1:31 am

Amother, nice story. LOL

ITA!

Quote:

it takes me minimum 1 hr and up to 3 hrs to get him to sleep. this is done holding him in a baby carrier. he cries and kicks and is an absolute wreck, and so am I!!! he sleeps for 45 min to an hr, and then we start all over again. at night he wakes up to eat every 2-3 hrs. wake up is at six, and "bedtime" is 6:30-7.

I guess I'm a little confused about this. Why do you need to get him to sleep? It sounds like he's not really sleepy when you first start trying to get him to sleep. It's not typical to have to soothe a baby to sleep for that long. Waking up every 45 minutes is also not typical.

Do you want him to sleep because you are exhausted? If so, why not ask a chesed girl from the local school to come by and hold your baby for an hour in the late afternoon while you sleep? Or a paid babysitter--perfect job for a 10 or 11-year-old, who will be thrilled to hold a baby and get paid for it.

I really think that putting the baby to bed so early in order to get some "alone time" is backfiring for you.

Quote:

his bedtime is at 7 for our full 5 months together.

How could a newborn have a bedtime? I'm confused....

Basically, OP, I would recommend that your goal for the daytime should be to keep him up as much as possible (he'll probably need two naps during the day), and put him to bed a bit later than you have been so that he's truly tired. Get a daytime routine going so that he feels his world is more secure, predictable, and interesting. For example:

--Breakfast
--Morning walk
--Playtime (peek-a-boo, tickling, etc.)
--Nap (he naps, while you do housework)
--Lunch
--Get out: either errands or visiting friends or whatever. Very important to do this!!!
--Nap
--Late afternoon walk
--Fix supper
--Supper
--Playtime with Tatty
--Bath
--Bedtime

While you're fixing supper, you could have a girl holding your baby. Or, you could make supper in advance (while the baby's napping in the morning), and use the late afternoon for a nap (while sitter holds your baby).

Bathtime could be a Tatty thing; it'll be great bonding for them.

Also, if you're comfortable with it, you could try offering your breast to baby when he's fussy. He may be missing that closeness and comfort. If you allow him to suck on them regularly, your milk will probably come back in, which is good. Even if you don't produce much, every little bit is extra calories, which are especially important for a babele who's not taking as much formula as you'd like, and the extra milk might help him to sleep better..

In terms of "me time," baby has the two naps during the day. You can do your housework while listening to shiurim or audio books or talking on the phone with friends or doing whatever makes you happy. This is great "alone time." Also, if you put the baby to bed at 9 p.m., you have an hour to yourself. Let's say the naps are two hours each. So, you now have about 5 hours a day in which to be your old self.

Hatzlacha!

momaleh

Mon, Aug 23 2010, 3:15 am

First of all, you are doing fine, hang in there. It's all normal. Sounds like my first!

Next, you need to teach him how to fall asleep himself. I do not advocate cio, and neither does BW. Do you ever check the BW forums? You will get a load of info, try it.

Wearing him to sleep will cause short naps, so he will wake up tired, be unhappy, want to fall asleep too soon again, and he won't be able to due to over tiredness.

Try pick up/put down. Yes, he will cry at first, but you are there with him and giving him help when he needs it. It will take a while at the beginning, but don't give up. He will learn.

Once he is falling asleep on his own, in his crib, he will probably sleep longer, for naps and during the night. You will be able to get him on a 2-3 nap schedule and feel normal.

Good luck, you can do it!!!

ulimom

Mon, Aug 23 2010, 6:20 am

I also was trying to follow the baby whisperer with my #1 exactly the way she explains in the book. somewhere along the way though, I realized that being a little more laid back was much better for both of us...
for example feeding when hungry, not only at E time.... etc...

maybe you need to relax a bit (hard to do with the first! its all so new!!!!) and like someone metioned above, maybe your baby needs more action and less sleep....

(btw, you said baby yawns, and u start tryng to put him to sleep.... (like its ays in book) I used to do that to...but baby goes to sleep much better when u wait a bit more...

shabri

Mon, Aug 23 2010, 8:06 am

1st of all, as someone who is currently baby whispering her 3rd kid (age 5 weeks and sleeping from 10pm-6am) I can tell you it works. My 1st 2 slept 8pm-8am at 8 weeks (with a dreamfeed)

But for it to work, you need to be consistent and really work with it. You need to be really serious abt it and at 5 mos it will take you time to even make small changes.

2 things before I start. 1. get the big book (baby whisperer answers all of your questions and read the whole thing (or the parts that apply before starting.
2. check the baby whisperer boards.

Just a few thoughts.
1. He needs more than 2 oz. Of course his A is not long enough and he gets tired b/c 1. he is tired and he is tired b/c he is waking up from hunger.

Basically, you need to start on your daytime. Once his daytime eating and sleeping is good, his nighttime will fall into place.

At 5 mos he should be up for 2 hours and then sleep for 2 hours. Then up again.

Read what she says about getting him to sleep. I doubt that a baby carrier is the best way for him to get a good, solid sleep.

But I am stressing that you can't do it unless you are committed to it. If you give up, or take the "easy way out" it won't work.

By the way, my husband does the dreamfeed so I get a break to shower/sleep early etc.

PM me if you want more advice but try the boards, the ladies there are experts

Mumwithadrum

Mon, Aug 23 2010, 8:21 am

Chana:
There comes a point during playtime that he'll start scratching at his face and rubbing his eyes. he starts yawning and kvetching, I know its nap time. if I keep him up longer by changing the scenery, he will begin to cry and it will just escalate and then it takes a long time to calm him down. hes a touchy baby. your plan looks amazing. its just completely unrealistic at this point, hence the post.
I actually think that maybe im waiting too long to put him down, maybe hes over tired and thats why he cant stay up for more than 45 mins... I have to do some experimenting, this is my first child... I have no clue what im doing!!!
and I dont mean the FULL 5 months, in regards to sleeping. I mean to say, for as long as I can remember. lol.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Aug 23 2010, 8:27 am

Mumwithadrum wrote:

first of all, I can totally relate to this. with my daughter, she is my first also, I had no clue as to what signs I was supposed to be looking for in terms of sleepiness and thereby putting her down.

when I started "reading" her clues as in getting kvetchy, I would take note at the time and try every day, before the kvetchiness came around, to get her to nap time.

also, about being over tired and making it harder to go to sleep, there is a lot in that. a friend of mine once told me that she had to go home before she missed the WOO with her son. she told me that that stood for the Window Of Opportunity, meaning that if the time passed and her son got over tired, he would not go down for a nap. keep that in mind, when they get over tired, they miss the time that they will need to nap and then you are toast, its over and the craziness starts Smile

thats why you have to try to catch it before the craziness. its a whole learning process.

shabri

Mon, Aug 23 2010, 8:35 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Mumwithadrum wrote:

thats why you have to try to catch it before the craziness. its a whole learning process.

Exactly, and this doesn't change as they get older. Ppl think I am crazy that I insist on being home at 5 but little do they know that my angle 3 yr old turns into a monster at 6. If I start the bedtime routine (dinner/shower etc) at 5 then we are fine bed by 6. If I am off even by 15 minutes I have a monster on my hands (takes forever for her to get to sleep and she wakes up earlier)

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Aug 23 2010, 8:40 am

shabri wrote:

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Mumwithadrum wrote:

thats why you have to try to catch it before the craziness. its a whole learning process.

exactly, I call those hours at night where they go a little looney before bed the witching hours and they can be very bad if you dont stick to the schedule. its so important.

spinkles

Mon, Aug 23 2010, 10:20 am

Okay first you said he was yawning, now you say it's yawning/scratching face/rubbing eyes/kvetching...which is totally different, of course you should put your baby down for a nap if he's acting tired like that.

I don't think the schedule I suggested was "completely unrealistic," you said some days you're out all day and others you're home all day. You also said that you spend *hours* a day just soothing your child to sleep. The point to the schedule I suggested is that you both get a rhythm to your day that is enjoyable and somewhat varied, yet essentially predictable. It's important to make that happen. Focusing too much on baby's personal schedule of eating/sleeping/etc. is IMO less effective than making sure his larger environment is predictable and interesting.

So I guess here is where I must admit that I loathe the BW book, as a doula and lactation consultant I find her info on breastfeeding and demand feeding wildly inaccurate and offensive, and I disagree with the idea of scheduling a little little baby. So I probably should not have responded to your post in the first place, because obviously we have different takes on it! I just felt bad for you because you sounded so overwhelmed and so many things that could have gone great (co-sleeping, breastfeeding) had not gone well for you. I wanted you to be able to just enjoy your baby and not be so worried, you know? If you were my real-life friend and asked me for help, I would beg you take a "babymoon" for 24 hours, where you just snuggle your baby skin to skin, sleep with him, nuzzle, kiss, play, enjoy the surge of hormones...just enjoy being together and kind of refocus on the mother-baby relationship. I feel sad that the co-sleeping thing did not work out for you, you never got to really enjoy it (you said you were tense and found it hard to sleep). Co-sleeping is hands-down the best way I know of to get good sleep, both for you and the baby. And if you relactate, it allows him to suckle during the night and get a lot more calories in, which is especially good because the milk you make after midnight is richer. Okay whatever, whatever works for you and whatever you end up doing, may you have lots of enjoyment from your little one! Very Happy

prettyone

Tue, Aug 24 2010, 11:41 pm

chana_f wrote:

it works for some and not for others. I barely sleep a wink when my baby is in my bed. and I am definitely no baby whisperer

Annie

Wed, Aug 25 2010, 12:57 am

IMHO you need to organize your daytime sleep first. I also agree with the poster who said that you need to be careful not to miss your window of opportunity. Does your baby roll over? Does your baby like to be on his stomach? Does your baby have a small blankie or paci or something to hold as a transitional object in his crib?

My babies are never great sleepers, but I have found with my current baby that she needs her morning nap, and if I wait too long, forget it. Also, our limited success in the nighttime (from 4 wakeups between 7 and 6 down to 1 or two) has come because I have involved dh in the pick up put down of getting her back to sleep in the middle of the night. he will pick her up, play music, pat, whatever it takes. After doing this for about a week, she stopped waking up so much, or just kvetches and puts herself back to sleep. Some nights she even goes to bed at 7, wakes at 2, eats and then sleeps again until 6.

Don't move bedtime now, just work on daytime naps and letting dh take over sometimes during the night. Is your baby eating food?

Mumwithadrum

Thu, Aug 26 2010, 3:22 am

yeah... I used to like his rabbi a lot and now im realizing that he has his own agenda and not so much listening to us. this is of course after my husband opened his trust to him, which is hard for him to do. so the other day I called him up finally and told him all the things that I was upset at him for, like TELLING ME NOT TO ASK MY HUSBAND FOR NIGHT HELP!!!!!! so he said that if I NEED the help, I can take it, but I should give a 15 minute warning. I told him thats ridiculous, but wtvr im trying. are all men like this??!! now, when dh does night help, its like I owe him a million dollars.
chana, I knew u werent a BW!!!! im switching over from Sears method, he just needs more seder

prettyone

Thu, Aug 26 2010, 12:50 pm

Mumwithadrum wrote:

your husband sounds like a normal guy

I didnt like Sears method either. youll prob find that BW is a pretty moderate method. there is no CIO or anything like that. The only thing I have a problem with is the asking your baby if you can change a diaper....

there is another book you may want to read "healthy sleep habits, happy baby"