Letting Kids run around at shul

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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

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southernbubby

Tue, Jul 25 2006, 10:44 am

This is a offshoot of another current thread. In the other thread a parent stated that they changed shuls because the people at their shul were intolerant of her children running around and her husband took them so that she could rest. Another poster responded that where she lives, all children run around in shul.
I have seen children who were so rowdy, that they disturbed the davening. Often the mother needs a rest so the father takes the kids to shul but does nothing to keep them quiet. He must daven also.
When my own kids were small, I got a babysitter for a short while Shabbos morning and then walked to shul with those kids who could attend if I was there to march them out when they got restless. The rebbitzen would insist that every child be sitting next to the parent and no child could be up unless they wanted to help set up the kiddish. There were childrens' books there if they got bored but they couldn't run around.
At the shul that we attend now, there is a play room with toys for kids under 7.
Personally, I go to shul to daven and hear a d'var Torah. I think that it not impossible to teach even small children to respect the sanctity of a shul. If they are crying babies, they need to stay home with the sitter or their mothers. If the mom needs a rest, she needs to arrange help rather than expect the congregation to babysit.
Am I just an impatient, intolerant, old woman or do others feel this way?

shopaholic

Tue, Jul 25 2006, 10:52 am

I agree. DH refuses to take kids who whine or run around. If the Morah isn't their to do the childrens service, he knows they will be bored so they have to agree to sit nicely next to him, or stay home with me (lucky me!)

frummom

Tue, Jul 25 2006, 10:55 am

I get a babysitter for the yomim noraim, and the rest of the year I stay home with my kids(except for parshas zachor). I don't even let my sons go to shul on shabbos morning until I think they can sit for the majority of davening - a shul isn't a playground. even when we visit my parents - and their shul has a playground in the back - it bothers me to take the kids, because I don't want them to have the idea that we go to shul to play. and if I need to rest, why does that entitle me to send my kids to shul to disturb other people's davening?

Ruchel

Tue, Jul 25 2006, 10:56 am

I agree, esp. if they are very loud.

stem

Tue, Jul 25 2006, 10:56 am

I agree with you completely! I don't understand parents who use shul as a babysitter. Besides disturbing the davening, the kids also learn that shul is for fun and they lose the feeling of importance of davening in shul. My husband and I discussed this at length and we decided that we would not take our kids to shul before they are ready to really sit and daven next to a parent.

I do go to shul towards the end, my husband takes the kids in for "anim zemiros" and "adon olam" so they can feel the beauty and get an awe for the shul during the last few minutes of davening. Even then, if they get even a little restless, he brings them back out to me. Afterwards, we all enjoy a kiddush and shmoozing with our friends.

edited for typo

Last edited by stem on Tue, Jul 25 2006, 4:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

Mitzvahmom

Tue, Jul 25 2006, 11:02 am

oh I agree... I go to Chabad, because they are the only one that has a children's group that my kids actually enjoy!

Plus they know if they come into the shul they have to sit and be respectful. If the boys go to the men's side the Rabbi makes them sit

stem

Tue, Jul 25 2006, 11:02 am

Would you (no one in particular on this site) send your kids to work with your husband if you need a rest?! No. You'd either manage, or get a babysitter. Going to shul and davening with a minyan is very important! How can a man concentrate on his davening when the kids are running around out in the hall (or inside the shul shock

).
There is a reason that women are not required to daven with a minyan!

mom3boys

Tue, Jul 25 2006, 11:07 am

I think a lot depends on the set up of the shul. When you say run around, do you mean outside of the sanctuary (hallway) or literally between the tables?

My oldest and middle have started going to shul with my hubby this summer, it has been about a month and a half. They are 6 1/2 and 5. I believe I am the only mother who started sending to shul so late. I don't think they are old enough to stay with my hubby, but they too old to spend the morning with me. Besides the fact that their classmates are in shul as well as most of the kids that they know.

I do agree that the kids must have respect for the sanctity of the shul, however I also want them to feel familiarity. I want them to feel like they really do belong.

Ruchel

Tue, Jul 25 2006, 11:15 am

In the shul I go, the children go around running and yelling and crying, then they get so bored they go to play outside... even the teens are unable to behave and end up going out to shout and run.

chocolate moose

Tue, Jul 25 2006, 11:20 am

If it's not MY kids, I don't care that much. Really!

Mitzvahmom

Tue, Jul 25 2006, 11:23 am

Yup I am one of the mother's sitting in the lobby exhausted after walking 45 min (yes we have an eruv) pushing three kid sin the stroller.. As long as they are not fighting/running or screaming... I sit and relax for a bit, until the children's thing starts

Rochel Leah

Tue, Jul 25 2006, 11:30 am

stem wrote:

).
There is a reason that women are not required to daven with a minyan!

Before my second was born I would go w/ my 2 yr old to shul. I was able to daven as there were 12 yr old girls who would play w/ him, I would only go for musaf. now I cannot go to shul, but my now 3 yr old stays home w/ me. my dh davens form the omud..so whou would watch my child. chinuch is not running around shul.

there are those who send their toddlers to shul but won't wake their teenagers to go to shul???

chen

Tue, Jul 25 2006, 11:55 am

southernbubby wrote:

Am I just an impatient, intolerant, old woman or do others feel this way?

if you are, so am I. there's a reason why shuls have "junior congregation" or "children's group" and this is it.

red sea

Tue, Jul 25 2006, 12:00 pm

totally agree southern bubby

Ruchel

Tue, Jul 25 2006, 12:13 pm

chen wrote:

southernbubby wrote:

Am I just an impatient, intolerant, old woman or do others feel this way?

if you are, so am I. there's a reason why shuls have "junior congregation" or "children's group" and this is it.

Small ones don't.

ChavieK

Tue, Jul 25 2006, 12:15 pm

I agree with Southernbubby & Stem. My dh & I have it worked out pretty well. He goes to 8:15 minyan, if 10 yr & 7yr olds are up to it they go with him.Or they go with my girls at 9:00 (who drop them with dad).When that minyan is over it is about time for the drasha at 9:00 minyan,so I go for that & musaf & dh takes the baby.There are also groups in our shul for about 2yrs & up.But it took many yrs to get to this point.
As moms we have times that we can go to shul & times when we can't.I also get "cranky" at certain times listening to some mothers.Like Megila-& I hear mothers tell their kids " be quiet or we will leave" 10 times. Just leave already!!! Go to another megilla reading after.

chocolate moose

Tue, Jul 25 2006, 12:21 pm

my teenagers do go. thankfully we have a great shul that makes them comfortable.

anyway, they aren't there at the beg. of the davening....

and it's a whole different situation than that of a toddler!

melalyse

Tue, Jul 25 2006, 2:04 pm

I have a 9 month old. We daven at a yeshiva which ends early so I usually meet my husband downstairs when shul is over. But on the other hand there are shuls that are working their hardest to get young couples to join. The only way to do that is to be a little tolerant of young children running around. Not screaming and not making a racket. I was in a community staying by the Rabbi one time. The rebetzin brought me into shul with my baby. My baby started babbling dadada bababa and someone came over to ask me to leave. If communities want young people to come and be involve in shul that people have to be tolerant. I am not talking about screaming. That's just my opinion. thanks.

southernbubby

Tue, Jul 25 2006, 2:11 pm

Children running in shul hallways might not disturb the davening but they may knock down old people or deface the property. There was always the "who did it" and "it wasn't my kid" after something was found broken by unsupervised kids.

shalhevet

Tue, Jul 25 2006, 2:26 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Personally, I go to shul to daven and hear a d'var Torah. I think that it not impossible to teach even small children to respect the sanctity of a shul. If they are crying babies, they need to stay home with the sitter or their mothers. If the mom needs a rest, she needs to arrange help rather than expect the congregation to babysit.
Am I just an impatient, intolerant, old woman or do others feel this way?

No, I agree with you and stem 100%.

For many years I didn't go to shul at all. I didn't quite understand why mothers of young children on this thread feel their place is in shul (except a single mother who I can understand might need the adult company).

I went only at times when I had to (parashas zachor; shofar; megila- to a separate ladies reading) and then stayed for the minimum amount of time. Where we daven on RH you can hear clearly if you sit outside and there's a place to play, so I would stay as long as I could.

I feel that everyone loses out - if you're going to daven, you will be able to daven better at home where your child can play beside you; the rest of the people in shul will certainly be able to daven better. And you will be teaching your child how to behave in shul since he'll go when he can sit. Since I have girls first I was able to send the little boys with them for the end of davenning, and gradually extend the time. Friday night is actually a much better start than Shabbos morning.

In the last 2-3 years I could daven in shul for much more on RH and YK because my girls could help. I still don't even dream of going on Shabbos morning. (I don't think shuls in Israel have games rooms and children's services)

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