Attention Litivish or Chassidish Mothers and Freidasima

ABC

Sun, Sep 19 2010, 4:15 am

amother wrote:

I am so glad I'm married to him.

I wonder how glad he would have been if he would have married a girls whose parents reinforced her feelings of disgust and fear around physical intimacy. Like someone said, she isn't innocent anymore, now she thinks that something natural, normal, and beautiful is disgusting. You can't just undo that with kallah classes before marriage, oh-- and she can't turn to her parents either because she either believes that a) her parents are liars or b) they think intimacy is disgusting. I'm sorry this situation happened, I also learned about intimacy when I was far too young, but I think your husband is not thinking about your daughters well being and rather his own comfort level.

What age was 'too young' and why was it bad for you? Was it because of the way it was presented to you, or because of who told you?

My 7 year old already know about how babies come out of their mothers' bodies, and I intend to tell her about periods around age 8-9. My mother lied about these things to me and:
1) I found out anyway from friends (and not always 100% correct info)
2) I NEVER trusted my mother after learning that she lied to me about something so sensitive, and could NEVER turn to her for help or advice about ANYTHING related to my body. This was NOT a good situation.

OP, if you live in a very sheltered society, I understand that you may not have planned to tell DD about any of this yet, but now that she has been exposed to it, I feel very strongly that it's important not to lie to her. Can't you tell her something like, "I'm sorry you saw what you saw now, it was not appropriate and is something that you'll learn more about when you're a little older, but if you have any questions, please always come to ask me"

amother

Sun, Sep 19 2010, 4:45 am

Oh Ladies. I want you to know that I appreciate and value all of you. Even those that aren't charedi lol.
The DL or MO opinion is just not of interest to me in this case. As far as all of you Charedi ladies who disagree with our approach - that's ok too. I value your opinions. The world is not black and white, as you may have noticed and what is good for one child may not be the best for each child. We are very careful to look very deeply at each child and do what is best for them in each situation. I'm ok with the fact that many of you think we're doing something terrible and unheard of. I happen to feel that in this particular situation we are doing the right thing. All the opinions in the world are nothing like a parent's opinions. Parents know their child best. If I would have bowed to "public opinion" about how to raise my kids (and I'm not going to go into details here) we would have be "in drerd" a long time ago.

So, thank you, thank you, thank you and have a good kvittel.

amother

Sun, Sep 19 2010, 4:48 am

I didn't read thru the whole thread but my 16 year old ds walked in on his older sister and bil touching each other and was traumatized. Dd told me what happened and then I understood why he later asked dh if a husband and wife are aloud to hug and kiss. Dh asked our rav what to say and our rav said to tell him that yes they are aloud to but there are halachos about married life that he doesn't need to know about yet. He knew to stay off of the topic after that.

another

Sun, Sep 19 2010, 4:49 am

amother wrote:

Why ask in the first place ?

amother

Sun, Sep 19 2010, 4:52 am

OP here. I asked in the first place before I spoke with my husband. Once I spoke with him I realized that the smart thing would be to go along with him. Not only because Ima and Abba have to be on the same page. Also because I feel he's right. I said what I said to my dd because she caught me with by surprise and I'm the kind of person who has a hard time lying. In this case it's not such a great mida.

lilacdreams

Sun, Sep 19 2010, 4:53 am

sarahd wrote:

lilacdreams wrote:

and hey! I am charedi too!!

Sorry about that. I'm sure there are other chareidi women who responded here, but I'm not aware of everyone's status. I posted the responses that I was sure came from chareidi women and I figured I'd probably miss someone.

no need to apologize, I was actually directing that post to the OP Smile

amother

Sun, Sep 19 2010, 4:56 am

amother wrote:

Except your motherly instinct told you otherwise, based on what you knew about your child and what you knew was the emes about the situation. Only your husband's strong opinion made you see the light. It's one thing to want to follow your husband, it's quite another to allow your husband to undermine you and make you seem like a weak liar to your daughter.

And please, please ask your husband to give me the source that says you can lie to a child (who is halachically of marriageable age, btw) and say that something is assur when it isn't, just because you want your child to be incorrectly educated.

lilacdreams

Sun, Sep 19 2010, 5:13 am

OP in that case if you are so sure your dh is right why did you even consider asking on this forum in the first place? I would think you would have turned to dh before asking all of us, who you had no intention of listening to once we disagreed with you.

Truthfully as someone suggested you shoudl speak to a rav or reb'n about this subject. It just seems a bit off to me that basically everyone says its not a good idea to lie. That should be a red flag that *maybe just maybe you don't have the right idea about this situation and could do with some guidance.

I also have been caught off guard with a VERY SUPER embarrassing question from my kids but I chose to tell the truth and as a consequence my kids trust me.

good luck with whatever you decide, but please ask daas torah.

amother

Sun, Sep 19 2010, 5:45 am

OP, we had an incident with our 11 year old daughter a few weeks ago. We are chabad btw, but my dd until then was going to a community school with M.O and not frum kids. We found a notebook our dd had written a story in. The story was pretty s-xually explicit. (kissing, touching breasts) obviously she had been reading somehow some inappropriate books, or heard heer friends talking about this.

My dh originally had the approach your dh had. tell her this is disgusting, non jewish etc. I think this is a typical fatherly reaction btw. Men hate to think of their daughters having s-xual feelings.

bh we spoke to someone older and wiser and he told us to tell dd what EVERYONE here (and what your first instinct was) is telling you to do. Tell her this is appropriate behaviour within marriage.

I'm sure your husband is a great guy but just realise as a father his feelings on this matter are going to be complicated. And NO one is always right. Even the most perfect guy in the world. (which I am sure he is)

Raizle

Sun, Sep 19 2010, 5:48 am

amother wrote:

I suspected that the responses here on imamother would be what they are. I will reiterate that I specifically requested responses by Charedi posters. I see that many of you are not. Thank you for weighing in but I'm not really interested in your opinions. Only the opinions of Charedim of all types.

Quote:

Attention Litivish or Chassidish Mothers and Freidas

I'm Chassidish.
Shalhevet is Litvish
Freidasima is Freidasima (did she respond? I don't remember and I'm not going back to search)

Raizle

Sun, Sep 19 2010, 5:51 am

amother wrote:

so why did you ask ?

amother

Sun, Sep 19 2010, 5:52 am

Raizle wrote:

amother wrote:

Quote:

Attention Litivish or Chassidish Mothers and Freidas

I'm Chassidish.
Shalhevet is Litvish
Freidasima is Freidasima (did she respond? I don't remember and I'm not going back to search)

Yes, Raizle. I am aware of that and I always value your opinion. I am also aware that many Charedi posters answered.
Thank you.

Raizle

Sun, Sep 19 2010, 5:53 am

amother wrote:

Excellent point!
Again I don't want to cause SB issues for you OP but you and your husband have to have a serious heart to heart about him undermining you and making you out to be a liar.

amother

Sun, Sep 19 2010, 5:54 am

Raizle wrote:

amother wrote:

so why did you ask ?

I already answered that question in a post above this. I asked before I had the chance to discuss what I said with my husband. Just feeling everyone out, as many people do here on imamother. And just because we're doing something different than the consensus doesn't mean I'm not allowed to ask or that I don't value your opinions.

Ruchel

Sun, Sep 19 2010, 5:55 am

When I learned about reproduction in school (and believe me it wasn't detailed) I thought it had to be like that for non jews but certainly not for Jews LOL

My dh also thought only non frum people kissed until very late, like 18 LOL!

That said, I agree it's not a healthy attitude, but it's common, and even many non Jewish teens think "kissing/relations is disgusting", until they fall in love Wink

I watched Stargate a long time ago with a guy friend, he was 16 at the time, and there was a quick peck on the lips, he said "ewww that's GROSS".

I think "married people can touch, I understand it disgusts you, it used to disgust me too, but when you meet your bashert it won't" would be a good answer?

I sent my DD to a so called charedi daycamp, where some boys went around saying mommies and daddies put "down there" inside "down there", and the mora said that's assur and disgusting and for non jews. I think by the time it's time to discuss such things she'll have forgotten that day in daycamp...