Challenge- Argue the Opposite Position 2010

marina

Sun, Oct 17 2010, 9:07 pm

I recently did this in the welfare-fraud thread and it was very enlightening, so here I am recommending it to you.

I think this is especially important b/c of the current tensions on this website- it's a good idea to challenge yourself and see if you can really understand the opposite point of view.

Choose any controversial topic and argue the opposite of the position that you normally hold. The rules are:

1. You have to be sincere in your argument. No sarcasm, faking it, etc.
2. You can't just parrot what others say. You must come up with your own formulation, a way of thinking that makes sense to you.
3. Extra Credit: Think of one typical response to your argument ( say that you would normally make) and counter-argue it.

I am also happy to try and do this here in this thread on any controversial topics if you challenge me. Some I will not be able to do, but I think I can at least try most.

Mimisinger

Sun, Oct 17 2010, 9:45 pm

Bottles make sense.

They're so much more convenient than breast feeding. You can feed your baby anywhere and never have to worry about being untznius. Your baby goes hungry while you search around for discrete corners to nurse in. While you can feed your baby with a bottle even while on line at the grocery store!

Not only mommy can bond while baby eats, but Daddy can bond, siblings and grandparents can bond with baby too. An added plus is that mommy can get some much needed rest. It's hard to have a baby, it's exhausting, and mommy needs sleep. Also, if a mommy has postpartum depression then the baby needs to be cared for while mommy is unable to.

What if the mother is ill after her pregnancy or birth? This too would disallow nursing, and worse of worse, if a child is only breast fed and then the mother gets into CHV an accident, then they baby may never take to a bottle at that time. The baby could take a long time to learn how to eat, and it could be very damaging to the baby.

Also, while formula is expensive, they give freebies in the hospital and there are formula gemachs. Plus you can hunt around for coupons and get formula really cheaply.

Extra Credit: And, while corn syrup IS usually the first ingredient in formula, there are loads of scientists as well as the FDA who deems the formula safe. And, if corn syrup is linked to childhood obesity, at least the baby is growing. And, I don't think that only 1 year on formula really affects a child's weight later on. I would feed my baby healthy foods and give him/her a good sense of healthy eating habits so that they live their lives healthily and without obesity. Plus, how many people were only nursed and are obese now? Clearly, the formula didn't affect THEIR weight.

See bottles are best.

marina

Sun, Oct 17 2010, 9:55 pm

I am so excited! Thank you!

1. Against Secular Education:

I will divide my argument against secular education into three parts.

The strongest argument against secular education is the financial one. College has become a ritual, a rite of passage almost like attending high school used to be for middle and upper class children in the early 1900s. Except that high school is free and college costs 20-30K per year for a good brand name school. Earning a trade certificate or even obtaining a degree online can be less expensive and ultimately more lucrative than spending 120K just to be able to say that you graduated from this here upper echelon school with a degree in political science.

Even those who do not have a trade certificate or a degree at all have a huge benefit in that they also are not saddled with the corresponding student debt. They can seek to attain valuable experience in a field, kind of like an apprenticeship used to be in the olden days, in many ways, through volunteering, internships or even entry-level positions. While they earn this practical hands-on knowledge, they are comfortable and secure in the knowledge that they do not have 120K+ to pay off.

Finally, those who are planning to devote their lives to klei kodesh or seek to work in an exclusively frum environment may have very little need to obtain a formal college education because other factors are more valuable to an employer. For example, a yeshiva will care less about a Rebbi's educational credentials and more about his natural control of the classroom. That rebbi would be wasting time and money by seeking an education degree when he could easily read up about classroom management from his local library.

The next argument against secular education is the limited value of the intellectual gains at many undergraduate institutions. More specifically, despite their purported goals, many undergraduate schools fail to stress the importance of critical thinking skills and solid analysis. Many students, even in graduate programs, are taught to accept what the professors teach and parrot back information for a test or paper or even just power point presentation. Moreover, as more and more individuals matriculate into universities, these same institutions become more susceptible to the dumbing-down of curricula that currently plagues public schools all around the country.

The final argument against secular education is the assimilation one. It is true that the college environment is not one which is conducive to maintaining individual pride in a religious outlook or way of life. Even the strongest nonconformists will often find themselves trying to blend in. If group pride and community preservation are important parts of your religious belief system, college will be a difficult terrain to navigate.

marina

Sun, Oct 17 2010, 10:05 pm

In favor of cleaning ladies:

The strongest argument in favor of cleaning ladies is the enhanced quality of life for the parents. Instead of spending their Sundays stressfully cleaning their house, scrubbing floors and arguing over whose turn it is to wash the bathroom, the parents can relax together and do something fun with their kids. This contributes to a happier, more well adjusted household. And just like there is nothing wrong with paying 4.50 for a latte if that is what relaxes you, (instead of making instant coffee for $.10) there is nothing wrong with paying extra for someone to make the house clean and comfortable and relaxing.

Another fairly strong argument in favor of cleaning ladies is the fact that if no one used cleaning ladies, more people would be out of a job. Cleaning can be enjoyable and satisfying to many people and it provides a good, honest source of income. By hiring a cleaning person, you are supporting them and their extended family.

yummymummy

Sun, Oct 17 2010, 10:09 pm

marina wrote:

What are your arguments against cleaning ladies? (and not the young, pretty ones who might steal your DH)

Atali

Mon, Oct 18 2010, 12:03 am

marina wrote:

Atali: argue in favor of co-education or gay marriage Smile

Sure.

Coeducation -

Coeducation is often the most cost-effective approach. Many schools in smaller Jewish communities are suffering from trying to run separate schools with only a few kids in each class. Even in larger communities combing the genders would save on administration and facilities costs, as well as allowing for a larger variety of classes at each grade level. This savings could lower tuition for parents, giving them more money to cover other expenses and improving the financial health of the community as a whole.

Gay marriage -

The function of the government as set out in the constitution is to maintain the stability of the country while infringing on individual rights as little as possible. An individual's right to privacy effectively stops the government from being able to prohibit homosexuality in our times, and allowing homosexual marriage could help reduce homosexual promiscuity. This could help reduce the spread of STDs and the negative effects that they cause.

How's that.

Raizle

Mon, Oct 18 2010, 12:10 am

this is a clever thread but I'm too tired to really contribute right now.

Marina I'm curious if you don't mind me asking about your no-cleaning lady attitude. Surely you don't disagree with a woman who isn't coping getting house help to clean?
or what about a woman who isn't sitting on the couch eating bonbons but is
a) cleaning along side the cleaning lady
or
b) taking care of her baby and getting much needed rest after being up 10 times during the night
or
c) working for income

If you are concerned that this may take your thread off topic then pm me your answers. Smile