How did she marry a kohen?

morah

Fri, Nov 12 2010, 9:41 am

I am NOT questioning whether or not it was legit, the following story happened under the auspices of some premier pre-war halachik authorities in Europe (not saying who, I don't want to share where my family is from). I am just interested in how it all worked, and I don't want to bother my Rav with a question that's not currently relevant.

So here's the story:

A relative of my grandmother's got married in her European country shortly after the end of WWI to a recently-returned veteran. Like many young men returning from the war, he suffered from what we would now call post-traumatic stress disorder. He had a very severe form of it, and the marriage lasted a bit less than a year. They went to the Beis Din for a get, but it was ruled that the marriage should be annulled because the husband was deemed so badly mentally impaired that the kiddushin never took effect and there was no marriage. Anyway, based on the title of this thread, you can guess the rest- this relative's second husband was a kohen. I've been wondering for a while how this was allowed- and again, I know based on the Beis Din and who married her the second time around that it was perfectly fine, but I'm curious as to the basis. The only thing I can think of is that maybe an annulled marriage is not treated like a divorce, so she is permitted to a kohen.

Anyone have more knowledge or insight into this? Or maybe someone has a husband who is a Rav, and he wouldn't mind his wife bothering him with irrelevant intellectual stuff Wink

someoneoutthere

Fri, Nov 12 2010, 11:00 am

"Annuling" a marriage means saying that the Kiddushin was not a Kiddushin, ie. she was never an eishes ish, the prerequisite to becoming a divorcee in halacha.

So, halachicly, since she was never an eishes ish (her kiddushin was deemed void, regardless of what was or wasn't done in the bedroom) she is not considered a gerusha and does not have any halachic problems of marrying a Kohen.
(Remember, sleeping with a Jew outside of marriage does not a zonah make in this regard)

Asked the Local Orthodox Kohen Rabbi.

amother

Fri, Nov 12 2010, 11:41 am

someoneoutthere wrote:

If we can retroactively say they were never married, doesn't that mean that all of the times they were together they were sinning?

MommyZ

Fri, Nov 12 2010, 11:42 am

amother wrote:

someoneoutthere wrote:

If we can retroactively say they were never married, doesn't that mean that all of the times they were together they were sinning?

D'Rabanan yes D'Oraysah only if she was a niddah.

amother

Fri, Nov 12 2010, 11:56 am

The list as I remember was: a divorcee (which in this situation is not the case since it was annulled); a convert; relations with a non jew (some still consider the girl a besulah if she had relations exclusively with jewish men). There may be more restrictions, but this is all I can come up with at the top of my head.

Fri, Nov 12 2010, 12:24 pm

A Kohen could marry a non-besula (he can marry a widow!). So I agree with someoneoutthere, if there was no kiddushin she was never married before, so not a divorcee. And even if she was not a besula after that first "marriage", since she had tashmish with a Jew she is not a zonah and mutar to a Kohen.

shlomitsmum

Fri, Nov 12 2010, 12:25 pm

Did the marriage to the cohen produce kids??? If so consult a posek ONLY if there is a GOOD reason ,cause if she is deemed a divorcee then her kids are Halalim and not fit for kahuna.
So unless there is a real need to dig ...for a constructive purpose beyond curiosity I would assume a Posek ruled she could and leave it at that .
Cause If you know the name of the Rabbi or BD they used and find out it was so /so then you opened up a can of worms and might have to inform your relatives of this "status issue" and it might get messy.
So proceed with extreme caution.

morah

Fri, Nov 12 2010, 12:43 pm

Shlomit'smum- I know everything is fine with her kids status-wise. Some very prominent poskim from that era were involved- I was merely curious as to how the whole thing worked. I think the explanation about annulment retroactively meaning she was never truly married makes the most sense. I am fairly sure they had relations though- I think she had a miscarriage while still with the first guy. It seems the Beis Din ruled that he was mentally incompetent at the time of kiddushin so it was not effective. I was wondering why annulment is not treated like divorce. For instance, I know a woman who does chalitza also can't marry a kohen because chalitza is treated like a divorce of sorts. Seems not to be the case with annulment.

shlomitsmum

Fri, Nov 12 2010, 1:21 pm

morah wrote:

Then you are all good!!! (I was only concerned cause about the BD since ,I know folk that to convert after someone found out their bubby converted and that the BD was from a small town in poland while doing geneology for fun! 3 generations later of frum people the conversion was not Halchicly kosher and questionable and what have you Rolling Eyes

,sadly one relative WOTD cause they thought it was all nonsense ,ovbiously the lady was sincere but it still did not fly... )

hope you did not take offense!

Have a good Shabbos Wink

shaini

Sat, Nov 13 2010, 6:42 am

I do know a case in Australia where a divorcee with a child (all legitimate from a 1st time kosher marriage) married a kohen and they're well known (both the 2nd husband and the wife) as always having been considered frum in the community. So it can be done, how I don't know.

shalhevet

Sat, Nov 13 2010, 12:49 pm

I also always wondered about this. I knew someone years ago who was divorced and then married someone called Cohen (Of course there are occasional people whose surname is Cohen, but they are not Cohanim - I know someone like that too!). I always assumed their first marriage wasn't consummated. All the people involved are frum, and it seems unlikely they wouldn't have asked a rav. The first husband never remarried, so maybe he was gay or had some other physical or emotional problem which meant he didn't consumate the marriage.

louche

Sat, Nov 13 2010, 7:32 pm

shaini wrote:

Check out whether the second husband duchens or gets the Kohen aliyah. The only kohen-married-to-a-grushah whom I know walked into the marriage knowing and understanding that this would make him possul for kehuna. He no longer duchens or serves any of the functions of a kohen. As there are no children from this marriage, the next generation is not affected. .

Sherri

Sat, Nov 13 2010, 7:38 pm

someoneoutthere wrote:

This seems to be the answer, no?