Foreign Words and Phrases

Chana Miriam S

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 12:57 pm

This whole discussion has really gotten me thinking. As Canadians, we have two official languages. All of our labelling is in both languages so to some extent, even English speakers can read french even though we may not speak it. I don't know if that holds for french speakers however (and here is where my prejudice shows) because I have seen labels in only French. I understand that businesses in Quebec can be charged for not using French on their signage. In English Canada ( and who knows, maybe even in French Canada) they teach Parisian French. We also have those who speak Acadian French.

Anyways, clearly I live in a country where on top of the two official languages, we also have various dialects of each of those and when you add in the languages of the aboriginal peoples it becomes even more complicated to think about.

It really makes me realize that I cannot judge someone else's speech or pronunciation here. Odds are they speak more of my language than I do of theirs!

MommyZ

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 2:55 pm

Sweet Valley Gal wrote:

MommyZ wrote:

When a word or phrase from another country is incorporated into your native tongue do you attempt to pronounce it correctly or do you use the common mispronunciation of your country?

Case in Point?

DrMom said that in Israel voilà is pronounced walla. I pronounce it vwa-la.

MommyZ

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 2:58 pm

Mrs. XYZ wrote:

MommyZ wrote:

When a word or phrase from another country is incorporated into your native tongue do you attempt to pronounce it correctly or do you use the common mispronunciation of your country?

So whenever you use a hebrew word, you say it with the guttural "R"?

I said attempt to pronounce it correctly I never said do you have an perfect accent in everything and yes I do try.

ora_43

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 3:43 pm

MommyZ wrote:

Sweet Valley Gal wrote:

MommyZ wrote:

When a word or phrase from another country is incorporated into your native tongue do you attempt to pronounce it correctly or do you use the common mispronunciation of your country?

Case in Point?

DrMom said that in Israel voilà is pronounced walla. I pronounce it vwa-la.

As I said - voila is not pronounced "walla" in Israel. Voila is barely used at all. What is used is the word walla, which is the correct pronunciation of a totally different word.

Chana Miriam S

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 3:55 pm

Foyer is still not pronounced on google translate the way we say it here. here it is foyay (sort of)

Never mind. I think it is pretty clear that regardless of where a word started, it can be adapted to the colloquial language of other languages. I can use Yiddish in English scrabble some times. Hebrew too.

I once had an israeli friend who found the way ashkenazic jews pronounce hebrew offensive tacky and uneducated sounding. She was babbling on about how israeli pronunciation was the correct pronunciation, when a friend of ours, who was a PHD also studying for smicha called her out on it (respectfully) and said 'with all due respect, the ashkenazim have been pronouncing hebrew in this way for at least a thousand years. The modern Israeli accent is 100 years old. Which has been correct longer?' it shut her up immediately.

Our languages grow and shift constantly. Every year the English Language adds new words. Every year, other languages grow too.

To be judgemental is just that. Judgemental. We don't know what influences people have in their lives, their thoughts, etc.

hadasa

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 4:01 pm

I'm pretty good at adopting the accent in whatever language I'm speaking, and I will generally automatically use foreign (to that language) words in the accent I'm using at the time. So while speaking Hebrew, I might, even inadvertantly, find myself saying fillim instead of film or pilosoph/pestival instead of philosoph/festival. (Although I often argue that if beged kefet berosh milah applies to foreign words, how come no Israeli has been heard to say "palafel"?)

Raisin

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 4:09 pm

chanamiriam wrote:

probably the yeminites have the most authentic hebrew accent. Don't they have a hard and soft gimmel sound, which the rest of us don't bother with anymore? (does anyone use the soft daled sound?)

true language and accents change constantly. Ever watch old movies or listen to old radio programmes and been surprised how different the accents were then?

dGirl

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 7:04 pm

Ruchel wrote:

It's a weird mix of Spanish and messed up French or something. I have no idea why it was chosen, it's a terrible brand name. Maybe it's a great brand, but I would be wary of a hospital called "Le Ospytel", so...

Espcially if it's not L'Ospytel..... Scratching Head

WriterMom

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 9:18 pm

ora_43 wrote:

MommyZ wrote:

Sweet Valley Gal wrote:

MommyZ wrote:

When a word or phrase from another country is incorporated into your native tongue do you attempt to pronounce it correctly or do you use the common mispronunciation of your country?

Case in Point?

DrMom said that in Israel voilà is pronounced walla. I pronounce it vwa-la.

As I said - voila is not pronounced "walla" in Israel. Voila is barely used at all. What is used is the word walla, which is the correct pronunciation of a totally different word.

Ora: fascinating, thanks. I speak French and absolutely no Arabic, so I'd assumed it was "voila" as well.

I think it's great if people know and try to use other languages, even if just a few words. If it's a "borrowed" word (le cheeseburger, anyone?) then either pronunciation is fair game. (I'm sure nobody on the subcontinent pronounced "bungalow" the way we do, for instance.) For that matter I'm very fond of people who mispronounce words because they learned them from reading; I love the proof that people can still acquire vocabulary from books, with no human intermediary.

The one thing that raises my ire is when people are obviously using a foreign word to make themselves sound educated and gets it egregiously wrong. That and "eck cetera", etc.

MommyZ

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 10:22 pm

WriterMom wrote:

ora_43 wrote:

MommyZ wrote:

Sweet Valley Gal wrote:

MommyZ wrote:

When a word or phrase from another country is incorporated into your native tongue do you attempt to pronounce it correctly or do you use the common mispronunciation of your country?

Case in Point?

DrMom said that in Israel voilà is pronounced walla. I pronounce it vwa-la.

As I said - voila is not pronounced "walla" in Israel. Voila is barely used at all. What is used is the word walla, which is the correct pronunciation of a totally different word.

That expresses my sentiments quite succinctly. Thank you.

morah

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 11:19 pm

I really don't know. Also, it's possible to partially butcher, for instance, saying "valet" technically correctly (silent t) but putting the em-PHA-sis on the wrong sy-LLA-ble. I suppose once it's been adopted, there's nothing wrong with saying it the way people in your country say it, and the people from the country the word originally came from should get over themselves.

My dad is French, so I speak French fluently and when I use French words that have been adopted in English, I sound French when I say them and everyone teases me for it. Occasionally someone gets insulted about it, thinking I'm being snooty and Frenchy, but what can I do, I grew up speaking French so I really can't bring myself to butcher it just because it's coming up in an otherwise English sentence.