______ ______-alleged molestor

smilingmom

Mon, Dec 13 2010, 7:22 am

ora_43 wrote:

smilingmom wrote:

What is helpful????? dicuss it, discuss it, discuss.

Only when we can talk about it freely, can the victims realize that they are victims and will not be ashamed to let someone know about the horrible things they went through.
Whe the victims realize that they are not at fault, perhaps this cycle can stop.

So the more I talk about child molestation, the better things will be? If I talk about it 24/7, my kids will be most protected?

Sorry, but this is absurd. Again - I'm from a community where molestation is discussed openly, and where everyone is very clear that it's not the fault of the victim. It is not a solution. It is a good start, but the problem is still very much there.

Telling victims "it's OK don't be ashamed" does not make victims be not ashamed. The shame is a result of the crime in and of itself, community reaction can exacerbate it or not, but can't make it disappear.

And it's absurd to tell me this when I ask "what is helpful," since you're telling me something I've grown up with already. If a grown person who is not an imbecile asks "what should I do to help fight the problem of molestation," you can assume that "don't blame the victim" will not be new advice.

Ora, you and I were brought up in openminded communities, but others here on this board were not.
I have talked openly to my children since they were two, about their private parts being private and talked to them openly about s*x ever since they were old enough to grasp the age appropiate concepts.
It appears to me that others on this board are living in extremely insular communities and have not learned about s*x until they went to kallah classes.
If the only eductaion someone gets as a child about s*x is from a molester, than we perpetuate the problem. What I am advocating is telling children about nornal and abnormal s-xual behavior.
Unless we are comfortable talking about s*x abuse among adults, we cannot warn our kids about it's dangers. The first step is to discuss this openly among our selves.

I have sent Elliot Passik's video and petition and Pinny Taub's video to the frum people in my address book and asked them to forward it to their friends.
It was astonishing but the feedback I got from one person is that it is too "embarrassing" to forward the email. That is why I say, discuss it, discuss it, discuss it.

smilingmom

Mon, Dec 13 2010, 7:50 am

ora_43 wrote:

OK thinking about it some more..

And if someone feels that their community is not educated about abuse, so make up a fictional Shmohen family and talk about them instead, leave the real life families alone unless the people involved themselves decide to come forward a la Pinny Taub.

I think the approach that involves talking about families that are suffering this, or treating them as dangerous, is harmful. But am I criticizing the people who advocate that approach as not caring enough about victims? No, because that would be wrong and unhelpful. Just saying.

this s reality and not about made up stories or scare tactics. The idea of fabricating a story is totally abhorrent to me.
As I said earlier in this specific case, the victims happen to be his children. If the victims were not related, would you be in favor of publicing the crimial's name.
Did you feel it was correct to name the recently convicted Rabbi,? or perhaps since he will spend the next forty years in jail, their is no reason to mention his name either.
We could always find excuses not to talk about abuse or its perpetrators.
It is time to stop the excuses and start taking action.

ora_43

Mon, Dec 13 2010, 8:15 am

smilingmom wrote:

We could always find excuses not to talk about abuse or its perpetrators.
It is time to stop the excuses and start taking action.

Again you are using hurtful rhetoric.

I think that some of what you propose here and elsewhere will hurt more than help. But I am not accusing you of making excuses, because I realize you mean well.

Why can't you recognize that other people might have a different approach than yours for legitimate reasons, and not just a desire to "make excuses"?

As for what I think about how to help in general, and about s-x ed, I"ll post on a new thread, since I think this one is mostly dead by now.

sarahd thanks Very Happy

amother

Mon, Dec 27 2010, 9:45 pm

HindaRochel wrote:

It makes sense in terms of not trusting him with your children, just as it makes sense if someone is accused of rape or murder or what have you, your trust level goes down. But we aren't talking about having him babysit. We are talking about calling him a rapist before he has been found guilty.
What you think in your head no one but G-d knows. But many people in these threads have spoken about him as if he and his sons WERE guilty.

That doesn't mean we assume the daughter lied or the co-worker lied. It means assuming we don't know.

Schrödinger's cat: until the box is opened it is alive and dead.

So, the only way you will believe he is guilty is if a secular court finds him guilty? And who will be called up as witnesses?! The very person who finally spilled the beans! HIS DAUGHTER! so, why can't you believe the poor girl right here and how?!

And, for the record, like some would say...

The daughter.... is my good friend. If ANYONE has ANY question if the father is guilty...

smilingmom

Tue, Dec 28 2010, 7:43 am

amother wrote:

I think that you bring out a very good point. By giving the benefit of the doubt to an alleged molester, what we are in fact saying, is that we don't belive the victims.

Is accusing the victims of possibly lying, not slander???

Why are we calling the victims liars before the are found to be guilt of perjury.

In this specific case, the victims came out and spoke. The alleged molesters (father and one brother) did not deny any of the allegations of the daughter. They fled the country instead.

bubby

Tue, Dec 28 2010, 7:56 am

smilingmom wrote:

amother wrote:

Allegedly, apparently (& all the other PC language we must remember to use to protect the accused) with Mom's help. THAT is what horrifies me the most. And sorry, IF it is true, I can't find any justification for it, nor can I believe she lived in the house with 4 sickos & didn't know. I find it impossible to believe she didn't at least suspect something. Sorry, my DLKZ doesn't stretch that far. So I'm a bad person..... Rolling Eyes

smilingmom

Tue, Dec 28 2010, 8:06 am

bubby wrote:

Bubby, one slight correction. We do not know if it was four sickos. The father and one son ran away. One of the brothes was charged with two misdemeanors and pleaded not guilty.
The fourth was a child, who may have also been a victim.

As far as the mother goes, I too cannot give her the benefit of the doubt at this point. If they would have taken a cab to the airport, I might be more sympathatic towards her, but she DROVE them to the airport.

amother

Tue, Dec 28 2010, 9:05 am

bubby wrote:

smilingmom wrote:

amother wrote:

amother above who is daughter's friend...

Mom was a terrorized victim as well... So while she may have known what was happening, she did not have the emotional courage to stand up to her monster of a husband and report him.